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King Glorious 05-22-2009 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
Phil does not have a consistent performer at guard besides
Kobe. And he has no point. Kobe is playing 1,2, and 3. And getting
beat up by Mellow. The Lakers would not have a chance
in this series without Kobe and Gasol. These are the only consistent
performers they have. Bynum is cannot stay with this up tempo game
the Lakers are playing. Ariza is playing fairly well, but he is playing
more at Kobe's position.


Lucky for the Lakers the Nuggets still have the flat headed
Nene and Martin.

That's been Mariano's problem though. I remember a couple of years ago in the playoffs against Phoenix and everyone could see the Lakers held a huge size advantage but instead of playing big and making the Suns adjust to them, Mariano keeps trying to match up with other teams. The Nuggets don't have the size to match up with Bynum, Gasol, and Odom all in there. The Lakers need to take advantage of them and make the Nuggets pay instead of making it easy for them by going small and easier for the Nuggets to defend them. And part of what I'm saying is that they don't have any consistency from the other guards because nobody knows what the hell their role is. It's natural that when one of them is in there, they are trying to play a little bit selfishly and produce because they want to play the next game. It's hard to play when you are constantly worried about making a mistake because you know that mistake could mean you go from 20 minutes to three in the next or in Farmar's case, to a DNP-CD. I also didn't understand why, if you are going to go small and play Gasol at the center and Odom at the power forward, why was Walton ever in there for Ariza? Ariza had it going and there was no reason Walton should have ever checked in for him. Same as when Farmar had it going. Mariano pulled him too.

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
I did some research. To borrow your line "do you actually watch the games" Lets check out Carmello's career playoffs stats

Yr Team G GS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF REB AST STL BLK TO PF pts

Career -- 34 34 38.0 0.427 0.400 0.803 2.6 4.6 7.2 2.8 1.1 0.3 2.91 3.60 23.4
This YR 11 11 38.2 0.500 0.488 0.831 1.7 4.6 6.4 4.3 1.8 0.8 2.09 3.80 28.1

08-09 66 66 34.5 0.443 0.371 0.793 1.6 5.2 6.8 3.4 1.1 0.4 3.02 3.00 22.8


How about against LA lakers?
G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF REB APG SPG BPG PPG
08-09 4 4 35.3 .328 .200 .733 1.8 6.0 7.8 4.0 1.2 0.5 14.5

Playoffs 2 2 41 .734 .363 .772 3.5 4.0 7.5 4.0 0.5 1.0 36.5

LA owned him this year during the season. Things are different in the playoffs.






What do you think Chuck? Still just defense?:) What do you say my man?

perhaps the supporting cast and having a true playmaker to play with has something to do with his numbers improving? Perhaps since he is playing meaningful games instead of garbage time games his game is more effective? His game is the same. Ask Peegarden who told him he was wrong about Anthony? Before the season. Without Doug Collins help. By the way he was 12 for 29 last night. he shot worse but they won. Maybe that is the answer?

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
In a desperate situation with no one else available in a one sided series, they may have tried it. Hell, they were getting killed so i would have tried to. That was not the case the other night and i hope they do the same thing tonight. I invite you to watch the tape from game 1 and give honest feedback as to whether or not anyone was being "guarded".

The original contention was that "lebron can cover 5 positions" which is simply not true as no one was being "guarded" the other night. Barkley and Collins agree with me but chuck knows more than them about basketball because they are only entertainers and not basketball people.:)

Please stop trying to explain away your being wrong. So another poster brings up another time LeBron guarded a point but that doesnt count because they were desperate? He guards the PG. Get over it.

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
What did Trevor Ariza do last night anyway?

Hit a few open jumpers and blew the game by dropping the ball after the jump ball....

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:25 PM

Only about an hour away from Lebron guarding a point guard...

dalakhani 05-22-2009 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
perhaps the supporting cast and having a true playmaker to play with has something to do with his numbers improving? Perhaps since he is playing meaningful games instead of garbage time games his game is more effective? His game is the same. Ask Peegarden who told him he was wrong about Anthony? Before the season. Without Doug Collins help. By the way he was 12 for 29 last night. he shot worse but they won. Maybe that is the answer?

:rolleyes:


Cant you ever be big enough to admit that you are wrong about ANYTHING?

You said the only thing that changed was defense. I disagreed and used facts and stats to back up my point.

Regardless of reason, he has stepped his game up this playoffs and especially this series.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Hit a few open jumpers and blew the game by dropping the ball after the jump ball....

made four steals and scored 21 points. Not as good as bricking the game winning shot like the great delonte west, but certainly in the same realm which is all I said before the series started.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Only about an hour away from Lebron guarding a point guard...

You mean playing a one man zone? cant wait. I love watching lebron!

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:37 PM

From John Hollander piece on ESPN

Apparently, Cavs coach Mike Brown knew this, because Wednesday night he tried changing the matchups to produce a new result. It worked for a half. He put LeBron on Rafer Alston, stuck Delonte West on Hedo Turkoglu and had Mo Williams check Courtney Lee.

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
:rolleyes:


Cant you ever be big enough to admit that you are wrong about ANYTHING?

You said the only thing that changed was defense. I disagreed and used facts and stats to back up my point.

Regardless of reason, he has stepped his game up this playoffs and especially this series.

Pot meet kettle. Stop trying to say that Lebron doesnt match up against PG's. I am not wrong. He does. Why wont you admit it? It makes you look a little silly trying to reason away the fact is that he does. He may even guard Howard tonight. Would that be ironic? Prove my point in two games?

dalakhani 05-22-2009 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
From John Hollander piece on ESPN

Apparently, Cavs coach Mike Brown knew this, because Wednesday night he tried changing the matchups to produce a new result. It worked for a half. He put LeBron on Rafer Alston, stuck Delonte West on Hedo Turkoglu and had Mo Williams check Courtney Lee.

Who the hell is john hollander and how does he have more credibility than barkley or doug collins?

More importantly...who the hell is john hollander?

dalakhani 05-22-2009 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Pot meet kettle. Stop trying to say that Lebron doesnt match up against PG's. I am not wrong. He does. Why wont you admit it? It makes you look a little silly trying to reason away the fact is that he does. He may even guard Howard tonight. Would that be ironic? Prove my point in two games?

Do you want me to pull out the original quotes chuck?

And you still havent refuted the anthony stats. You said he hasnt stepped up but the stats say he has.

What gives? Do you deny the stats mr kettle?

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
Do you want me to pull out the original quotes chuck?

And you still havent refuted the anthony stats. You said he hasnt stepped up but the stats say he has.

What gives? Do you deny the stats mr kettle?

His stats in the playoffs are almost identical to what he did during the 06/07 season. Maybe the fact that the games are being played in the 100's or he is covered by your wiz kid can explain the stats. I hardly think that 2 games against the lakers versus 4 in the reg season is a valid statistical comparison.

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
Who the hell is john hollander and how does he have more credibility than barkley or doug collins?

More importantly...who the hell is john hollander?

He is a basketball writer for ESPN who saw what everyone else did. LeBron checking the PG.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
He is a basketball writer for ESPN who saw what everyone else did. LeBron checking the PG.

Interesting. charles barkley and doug collins are a little bit more valid. I mean...at least we have heard of them.

That writer isnt even American.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
His stats in the playoffs are almost identical to what he did during the 06/07 season. Maybe the fact that the games are being played in the 100's or he is covered by your wiz kid can explain the stats. I hardly think that 2 games against the lakers versus 4 in the reg season is a valid statistical comparison.

Look at the whole playoffs. He has upped every statistical category from his regular season average to his career average to his career playoff average.

Is that not enough of a statistical comparison?????????????????

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
Interesting. charles barkley and doug collins are a little bit more valid. I mean...at least we have heard of them.

That writer isnt even American.

There have been tons of stuff written about the 1st game and how effective the Cavs defense with the unusual matchups one of which was LeBron James guarding the point guard was in the first half. Your point is almost indefensible. I'm sure there is video available of the first half of the game. When Alston and Johnson are bringing the ball up the court and they are being guarded by LeBron james, how doesnt this not count?

dalakhani 05-22-2009 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
There have been tons of stuff written about the 1st game and how effective the Cavs defense with the unusual matchups one of which was LeBron James guarding the point guard was in the first half. Your point is almost indefensible. I'm sure there is video available of the first half of the game. When Alston and Johnson are bringing the ball up the court and they are being guarded by LeBron james, how doesnt this not count?

If the one man zone was effective, why did they go away from it? Perhaps because the man who was not being guarded, alston, hit a couple of open jumpers (11 pts)? Hmmmm

You have to stop the ball. That is a basic rule in defense and alston isnt a threat to get to the basket or do anything once he gets there. Self check. So once the ball is passed that is when the play starts.

I dont know how many magic games you watched but they are not a pg dominated offense especially when the little guy got injured.

5 on 4 not man to man.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
This is laughable...

But yet so true...

dalakhani 05-22-2009 07:44 PM

He isnt even covering him. Seriously. Are you watching this?

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
If the one man zone was effective, why did they go away from it? Perhaps because the man who was not being guarded, alston, hit a couple of open jumpers (11 pts)? Hmmmm

You have to stop the ball. That is a basic rule in defense and alston isnt a threat to get to the basket or do anything once he gets there. Self check. So once the ball is passed that is when the play starts.

I dont know how many magic games you watched but they are not a pg dominated offense especially when the little guy got injured.

5 on 4 not man to man.

Uh because the Magic made adjustments? Alston had 5 points at halftime. Cleveland did do pretty well in the first half the other night.

James guarded the point guard. This is fact. Not opinion.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 08:19 PM

After one quarter, Orlando has scored 16 pts...7 coming from jackson and alston. Interesting.

Notice that lebron was switching off of the initial screen and then instantly doubling the post? Remember...he cant stay in the paint to double or else its illegal defense.

In all fairness, Lebron played Alston straight up in the intial possession...or about as close as you can come to such a self check. After that, pretty much all zone until they brought johnson in and after two possession they switched lebron to courtney lee and then rashaad lewis (4)

Any disagreement now is just being stuborn. lebron is a remarkable talent but he can't cover 5 positions effectively. That is all i said.

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
After one quarter, Orlando has scored 16 pts...7 coming from jackson and alston. Interesting.

Notice that lebron was switching off of the initial screen and then instantly doubling the post? Remember...he cant stay in the paint to double or else its illegal defense.

In all fairness, Lebron played Alston straight up in the intial possession...or about as close as you can come to such a self check. After that, pretty much all zone until they brought johnson in and after two possession they switched lebron to courtney lee and then rashaad lewis (4)

Any disagreement now is just being stuborn. lebron is a remarkable talent but he can't cover 5 positions effectively. That is all i said.

How is any of what you said proof of anything? You just said he covered a 1, a 2 and a combo 3/4. Doesn't that get me 80% there?

dalakhani 05-22-2009 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
How is any of what you said proof of anything? You just said he covered a 1, a 2 and a combo 3/4. Doesn't that get me 80% there?

LOL. in a zone you cover everyone.

You ready to change the record? There are far more interesting things to disagree about. Obviously no one is waving the white flag here.

Do you disagree that this game is over?

Cannon Shell 05-22-2009 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
LOL. in a zone you cover everyone.

You ready to change the record? There are far more interesting things to disagree about. Obviously no one is waving the white flag here.

Do you disagree that this game is over?

They dont play zone. This game is over.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
They dont play zone. This game is over.

You cant get much more zone than what they were playing without being illegal.

horseofcourse 05-22-2009 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
LOL. in a zone you cover everyone.


Do you disagree that this game is over?

yes, 100 percent. It's the second quarter.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain they didn't call the game at halftime in game 1.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse
yes, 100 percent. It's the second quarter.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain they didn't call the game at halftime in game 1.

scrambler...i will lay 10-1 right now that this is over.

max bet 10 dollars

deal?

horseofcourse 05-22-2009 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
scrambler...i will lay 10-1 right now that this is over.

max bet 10 dollars

deal?

What does over really mean?? I mean you could have said the same thing at halftime of game 1 and Lewis misses the 3 or West makes the last 3 and teechinically you would be right. I think the Cavs will win, but I'll bet you the Magic cut the deficit to under 4 points at some point in this game.

I'll lay the 10-1 that the deficit gets under 4, not a win or loss.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse
What does over really mean?? I mean you could have said the same thing at halftime of game 1 and Lewis misses the 3 or West makes the last 3 and teechinically you would be right. I think the Cavs will win, but I'll bet you the Magic cut the deficit to under 4 points at some point in this game.

even money?

horseofcourse 05-22-2009 08:44 PM

ON a side note, Redick's a third of the way to seattleallstar's 15 point quarter.

horseofcourse 05-22-2009 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
even money?

IN the end, the Magic are just as close now as they were at halftime last game shooting much, much worse than game 1. This game is not over. Not even close.

horseofcourse 05-22-2009 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
even money?

yeah, I'll fax you a dollar if the Magic don't cut it to under 4 at some point. You got it.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse
IN the end, the Magic are just as close now as they were at halftime last game shooting much, much worse than game 1. This game is not over. Not even close.

even money that this game won't be within 4?

horseofcourse 05-22-2009 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
even money that this game won't be within 4?

yes, I said yes. The game will get within 4 at some point.

dalakhani 05-22-2009 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse
yes, I said yes. The game will get within 4 at some point.

10 dollars?

horseofcourse 05-22-2009 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
10 dollars?

Fine, but I really don't want $10. So honestly it went from 23 to 11, you really think it can't go from 12 to 4??

dalakhani 05-22-2009 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse
Fine, but I really don't want $10. So honestly it went from 23 to 11, you really think it can't go from 12 to 4??

I want 10 dollars if i win:)

No, this game is over.

horseofcourse 05-22-2009 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
I want 10 dollars if i win:)

No, this game is over.

existentially every game is over before it starts. You know it will end at some point. I mean, so far this series, the team with double digit leads at halftime is winless. You can structure anything anyway you want to. Based on that stat, I'm a guaranteed winner of this bet.

pgardn 05-22-2009 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
That's been Mariano's problem though. I remember a couple of years ago in the playoffs against Phoenix and everyone could see the Lakers held a huge size advantage but instead of playing big and making the Suns adjust to them, Mariano keeps trying to match up with other teams. The Nuggets don't have the size to match up with Bynum, Gasol, and Odom all in there. The Lakers need to take advantage of them and make the Nuggets pay instead of making it easy for them by going small and easier for the Nuggets to defend them. And part of what I'm saying is that they don't have any consistency from the other guards because nobody knows what the hell their role is. It's natural that when one of them is in there, they are trying to play a little bit selfishly and produce because they want to play the next game. It's hard to play when you are constantly worried about making a mistake because you know that mistake could mean you go from 20 minutes to three in the next or in Farmar's case, to a DNP-CD. I also didn't understand why, if you are going to go small and play Gasol at the center and Odom at the power forward, why was Walton ever in there for Ariza? Ariza had it going and there was no reason Walton should have ever checked in for him. Same as when Farmar had it going. Mariano pulled him too.

Its fun having so many NBA coaches on one
website...

Anyways.

I think Phil's problem is that Fischer is so bad. But...
he is the only guard besides Kobe that can
consisently handle the ball (except Fischer aint
going anywhere with it). Farmar has been given
plenty of chances in the regular season. I seriously
dont think Kobe trusts him. It has got to be very
hard to play with Kobe,
dont put it all on Phil (as much as I dislike him).

The Lakers might be able to go big with all 3 but
as I said last year, this really puts a strain on their
D. They become really slow, especially with Fisher at
point. Somebody had stated how great they would be
with these 3 at the same time and I just dont think they
have any perimeter D. Denver would/should just move Anthony
and Billups off high screens and spread the floor out.
You got open 3's and lanes when you make those
bigger guys help up top on screens.

Anthony has been a huge problem because not only is he
hitting his shot, he is getting very easy put backs and this is
the important part, easy put backs WHILE beating Kobe up.

Personally I like teams that wear down other teams by
making them play defense. Carmello is putting a whole bunch
of strain on the Lakers inside. He is forcing multiple people to
cover him on the drive, and then pushing Ariza and Kobe
all over the lane off the ball on offensive rebounds. He is making
Kobe play very hard.


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