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-   -   unions killing jobs... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43600)

Riot 08-26-2011 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard (Post 803202)
We don't need those pinko unions preying off the non-union populace anymore.
That's right !!!!

Riot 08-26-2011 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 803205)
I have tried to debate politics with you, you live in a dream world where the gov't can fix everything for everyone just by turning over successful people and shaking out the $.
Well, no, you don't "debate", you just throw one-liners back at other people's comments.

And no, what you state above is most certainly not my contention.

That's just another superficial one-liner made up of the prejudiced assumptions floating around your crazy, angry mind.

Quote:
Not too mention your regular contention that all other countries are better than mine.
Sigh ... you and reality don't have a good relationship, do you? I'm sorry. It's clear you just kind of superfically scan what other people say, then jump to whatever conclusion your assumptions force you to.

Don't go away whining you are a victim. That really makes you look shallow. But at least you make me quite happy I no longer consider myself a Republican, because you guys are angry all the time, and it's beyond tiresome to listen to the constant angry hate when trying to debate politics.

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 803121)
Even more funny is a good deal are hired cash only and don't pay taxes.. And even funnier yet alot of the Employers are die hard boot conservatives that bitch and moan about the defecit yet hire non documented workers who tax the medical system and don't pay taxes that would reduce the defecit. None work in your barn of course... Just sayin.
Hold on are you saying that cash jobs exist that American workers dont want? Well you are half right. There are plenty of jobs that Americans don't want but the days of paying cash are long over for any decent sized business. What about the billions of withheld money that never gets claimed by undocumented workers? The Gov't/IRS collects that money every 2 weeks via EFT. I guess that money doesn't count. it is much easier to just pay people above board than try to pay cash especially when you are audited by your workmans comp company every year.

It has been my experience that American workers in my business are generally the ones who claim "exempt" on their tax forms or want to work for cash or fill out a 1099 and never file, not the "foreign" workers.

Antitrust32 08-26-2011 03:46 PM
yep, Riot, Clip Clop sounds so angry and hateful in every one of his posts... and you sound so sane, happy, and rational.

You are 100% the "Lefty" version of Sean Hannity.

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 803123)
Nobody. We are swimming towards our best, most profitable decade in the past 100 years, with record GDP growth and a burgeoning middle class expansion. Construction, electronics, automobiles - flourishing!

Or, our middle class has been effectively destroyed for years, the majority of the wealth of this country is now in the hands of a few, businesses are holding 1.2 trillion out of the economy, our jobs are all overseas, Wall Street no longer makes money by growing strong corporations but by gambling on their success or failure at the expensive of investor funds, corporate CEOS have zero incentive to make their businesses successful for their investors as they still get million-dollar bonuses even if their company goes bankrupt, the days of steady 8-10% investment growth over years of time in 401K's is long gone, and the GOP wants even more tax breaks for their corporate masters, the poor suffering businessmen. Who would make jobs, lots, of jobs, tons fo jobs, if we would just cut their taxes even more, so they would feel ... "confident".

Oh, yeah, and can we disassemble all regulation - workplace safety, employee, EPA, etc. - to make it more convenience for them to do whatever the hell they want with no accountability? Great! Thanks.
Again who said the country is financially destroyed?

Funny thing is all those middle class people who started investing in wall street in the 90's weren't complaining when they were making money hand over fist and filling up their retirement accounts on bs internet companies when riding that bubble on many of the same failed investments that everyone complains about now. What about the hundreds of billions of dollars union pension funds have invested in wall street investments? No complaints when their investments in these same companies that they demonize are profitable?

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 803132)
No. Those corporations also want child labor laws repealed, unions gone, and all safety and environmental regulations removed so they can crap all over the USA like they do in other countries with their minimally-paid employees and lack of safety/compliance issues earning them record profits.

Poor, poor huge corporations! My heart bleeds for them ....
Yeah ok...

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 803130)
There is no "Excessive Taxes". What rates are you specifically referring to?

Whining that the tax rate is 35% is ridiculous - nobody pays that. The biggest multinationals don't pay crap, and keep their profits overseas.
Which is it? It doesnt exist or no one pays it?

Clip-Clop 08-26-2011 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 803214)
Yeah ok...
It is true, check the State houses and Capitol Hill!!

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 803143)
It's not "tactics", it's reality.

First, look at the facts of who has contributed most to destroying this country in the past decade with lying about wars, killing thousands of our young men and women, destroying the financial structure of this country, and reckless, unfunded spending and charging on the credit card.

Secondly, the GOP Governors, through Americans for Progress, Koch Brothers, ALEC, Republican Governors Association, Crossroads, etc most certainly do literally hand out bullet goals for governors. That is why all the sudden union busting stuff, the trying to privatize, the removal of home rule and appointment of "managers" by Governors, etc.

The current round of female GOP politicians of the ilk of Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin are crazy, not-intelligent cult members. They deserve to be called exactly what they are. Not ready for prime time, and most certainly not qualified to lead this country.

I've been part of the GOP my whole life, from the inside, and it's gone over the edge into craziness. The Republican leadership doesn't even pretend to represent the interests of the average citizen any more. They are a clear danger to this country.

You're welcome to them. Trying to disparage or discredit me because I want nothing more to do with that - well, have at it.
Reality isnt your strong suit. Actually you should look into being a political activist. You certainly have the passion and the ability to see only the script provided by Daily Kos and Huffy Po.

Riot 08-26-2011 03:58 PM
Quote:
What about the hundreds of billions of dollars union pension funds have invested in wall street investments? No complaints when their investments in these same companies that they demonize are profitable?
Nobody complains when you invest in a company and it is profitable, and most people can take a company not being profitable.

But that's not the way to make money on Wall Street for some time now. That's the point and why people are angry.

The way big money is made now is not purchasing stock in companies, but buying and selling packages of crap like mortgage derivatives. No longer is it buying and selling hard assets and business acumen.

You have Wall Street companies that sell stuff to their investors, then the company takes the short position. And it hasn't been the investors making money.

Riot 08-26-2011 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 803214)
Yeah ok...
There have been bills presented in this Congress. The only thing is that this Congress literally doesn't do crap and get them out of the House. They languish in committee. The intent is certainly there. It's already been tried to lower the age and change the allowable work hours (which has succeeded on the state level)

Geesh, do you guys pay no attention at all? :D

Is it really easier to pretend that because you don't see the elephant, no creature such as an elephant could possibly exist?

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 803218)
It is true, check the State houses and Capitol Hill!!
Maybe that's why the GOP is secretly against education. Maybe they can shutter enough schools, fire all the union teachers and round up the kids to work them long hours for low wages?

Think about it kids are young so they can work more hours, dont get serious ilnesses like adults do and are a long way from pensions!

Yes major corporations are all looking to repeal child labor laws.

Riot 08-26-2011 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 803219)
Reality isnt your strong suit. Actually you should look into being a political activist. You certainly have the passion and the ability to see only the script provided by Daily Kos and Huffy Po.
It is so much easier for you to do an ad hominem on the poster, than try to discuss the contentions themselves in depth, isn't it?

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 803221)
Nobody complains when you invest in a company and it is profitable, and most people can take a company not being profitable.

But that's not the way to make money on Wall Street for some time now. That's the point and why people are angry.

The way big money is made now is not purchasing stock in companies, but buying and selling packages of crap like mortgage derivatives. No longer is it buying and selling hard assets and business acumen.

You have Wall Street companies that sell stuff to their investors, then the company takes the short position. And it hasn't been the investors making money.
So it is ok for union pension fund to profit from companies that supposedly are doing harm to their workers in order to make that profit bigger?

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 803228)
It is so much easier for you to do an ad hominem on the poster, than try to discuss the contentions themselves in depth, isn't it?
Your contentions in that post weren't discussable and you did ask to be discredited didn't you?

Riot 08-26-2011 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 803218)
It is true, check the State houses and Capitol Hill!!
You are awfully proud of your ignorance. But it makes you look rather silly.

Tell me, what do you think about the Republican state rep child labor law change proposal in Missouri prohibiting employment of children under 13, and also that children less than 13 can work in mines, work with hazardous equipment, etc?

Or the GOP rep in Georgia, that wants children to be allowed to work increased hours, and until 11pm?

Or the two bills in House Committee, GOP-sponsored?

Riot 08-26-2011 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 803231)
Your contentions in that post weren't discussable and you did ask to be discredited didn't you?
Ah, I see. Just dismiss what the opposition says out of hand, then distract with the ad hominem.

Geeshus, that's lazy.

Riot 08-26-2011 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 803230)
So it is ok for union pension fund to profit from companies that supposedly are doing harm to their workers in order to make that profit bigger?
I think that a union investing member pension fund monies in the company that the members actually work for makes alot of sense, don't you agree? Seems the members have quite alot of incentive to make that company profitable.

I have some Berkshire Hathaway. Buffet just bailed out Bank of America. I don't agree, and I think Bank of America sucks, and should have been allowed to go bankrupt, but now that I own some of them, I hope they make obscene legal profits.

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 803233)
Ah, I see. Just dismiss what the opposition says out of hand, then distract with the ad hominem.

Geeshus, that's lazy.
I wasn't aware that there were minimum requirements or that a few sentences were so complicated. I guess I just thought that what you wrote was so ridiclous that I lazily and summarily dismissed it...

Cannon Shell 08-26-2011 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 803234)
I think that a union investing member pension fund monies in the company that the members actually work for makes alot of sense, don't you agree? Seems the members have quite alot of incentive to make that company profitable.

I have some Berkshire Hathaway. Buffet just bailed out Bank of America. I don't agree, and I think Bank of America sucks, and should have been allowed to go bankrupt, but now that I own some of them, I hope they make obscene legal profits.
So it is ok for union pension fund to profit from companies that supposedly are doing harm to their workers in order to make that profit bigger?


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