This is a good point, the penalties need to be harsh enough to deter the cheaters.

I'm not saying that he didnt deserve credit but he was only the head asst for a short time. McLaughlin, hennig and bobby barnett also worked for DWL

probably me

Seriously. I understand that you wouldnt want to put it out on the board though if it was something sensitive.

I just find it fascinating that one barn can produce so many top trainers and it would be interesting to know what brought that barn down from the top.

I guess the obvious question on inquiry minds is why the student(s) have passed the teacher? Almost everyone that worked for him is better statistically than he is when they leave...I don't think even the most challenged handicapper would wager on a Lukas horse with supreme confidence here in the present.

It's apparently far tougher for you to recognize one when you read it.

Why are you trying to complicate things with the injection of fact or reason or even thinking about other possibilities?

The overriding theme here is that it clearly all depends upon doping horses. Doping put Pletcher's grade 1 wins up there, lack of doping took the grade 1 numbers down. A trainer's earnings drop - that's clearly lack of doping. A horse is claimed and improves 20 points? Doping. A trainer has one drug positive? A doper. A trainer has no drug positives? Still a doper, testing just can't catch him.

Simple. Simple beyond belief.

I believe it was last Tuesday, during Allday's normal time period? Steve would know.

i say constant harping because it seems that todd gets a lot more criticism than many other trainers.
it just seems lately, not so much here but in the press, that not a peep is said about asmussen and his history--it just seems to be more criticism per event towards some trainers than others. and it's not as tho SA has been clean lately-he's facing a hearing soon, yet is in the running for an award next month-which i feel is shameful.

Pletcher was guilty, it was a positive under the rules then, I wouldn't have voted to give him a complete pass.

However - when I compare Pletcher's positive for a whiff of mepivicaine (and the procaine), to Biancone's, "I didn't know the cobra venom was in my barn" and Rod Stewart's, "My wife emptied the fridge and I didn't know either" - then add in Biancone's past (international) history, and Pletcher's past history - well, Pletcher isn't the one I'm going to turn up my nose in disgust at.

I think that TAP takes more grief on discussion boards such as this because of the media's portrayal of him as racing's "golden boy," while the Asmussens and Dutrows of the game are never portrayed in that light. I think what you are reading here is that, for a variety of reasons (often different from person to person), several individuals don't think that TAP's "golden boy" image is deserved.

It was a tough time for Wayne personally ( he has had 5 wives), klein leaving the business hurt alot, his assistants that left took clients with them and the game itself started to adapt to changes that he himself brought about. When he hit the scene virtually none of the big trainers were a national presense. Everyone was regional and even the top trainers had way fewer horses under their care than now. He made it acceptable for assistants to train owners good horses because essentially that is who is doing the actual training in outfits with multiple divisions. The time that I worked there we simply didnt have many really good horses.

Lukas lost a lot of good clients along with the assistants that left. He was also a lot more aggressive about running horses (and still is) than the younger guys who are more aware of their win percentage. I never heard Allen Jerkens or Wayne lukas say a word about win % when i worked for them. They never saw it to have any importance which it really doesnt especially to the degree that it is used as a measuring stick. win % is the white elephant in the room that no one ever seems to bring up when we talk about horses making fewer and fewer starts per year.

jerry maguire?

Several people mentioned TAP losing clients. I know he's lost Melnyk and some of the Peachtree horses but are they making any difference? I mean do Melnyk and John Fort have any sensations that are, by their absence hurting Todd? Beside that, Todd has picked up others, including some in Cali for Zayat.

and of course whenever one has success, they become a target. the higher you go, the bigger the bulls-eye. the irony is that people will root on another, til they get too good. then the fun comes from tearing that same person back down.

of course losses will hurt-they add up. look at baffert. he's added owners, but in no way did they replace who he lost.
and for those who wonder why lukas ended up where he is--he started out where pletcher is right now, and continued to go down. if pletcher can't stem the tide, he'll end the same way.

He has also been hurt by Coolmores lack of spending in the american markets recently (the green Monkey aside). Maybe those guys dont have any stars but they gave him lots of quality horses that add up to wins and money on the big league circuit.

Lukas and Pletcher are far differnt guys and trainers. Outside of working for him and being a "corporate" type trainer pletcher and DWL dont have that many similarities.