Cliff notes for Ulysess
 

The interwebs is a wonderful thing ... :D

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/...es.id-153.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_%28novel%29

believe it or not it is. As is their barbaric practice of castrating little girls and marrying them. Not to mention marrying or actually be forced to marry family members.

And before you start they're not OK.

But what really concerns me and it should you to is when it happens in our country and for PC reasons we look the other way.

That does concern me and we should watch as these creeps are airmailed back to Pakistan, anyone caught doing any of this should automatically be deported and lose citizenship if they have same. There is nothing PC about exploitation of women!

:tro::tro:

Hey Riot, thanks for all the info. I'll get to it at some point. I guess I had placed too much emphasis on a few early reports I read online (Huffington Post, probably-it's my home page) and came away with the impression that I wrote of

Ya know, rather than come back at you with an angry diatribe, I'll actually look at the info you presented. Weird, isn't it?

Timely, sickening news and a 13 year old from California? What father wants her daughter to date at that age much more arrange her marriage?

Sub-human like for sure!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Pakistan.html

Medicine just kickin in? just kidding Mike!:)

the merging of many cultures demands that one culture be shared that promotes decency between all peoples. If they can't adapt....sayonara!

i posted an article after that all happened, it's somewhere in the wreck of this thread i believe...the muslim americans that were cited were all happy he was dead.
than, i was listening to npr when they were discussing the killing...a muslim called, also very happy. then there was someone who mentioned that with egypt and tunisia, people know there are alternatives to al qaeda, to ultra strict islamism...

in other words, i haven't seen/heard one negative thing about it. al qaeda has killed a lot more muslims than they have non-muslims, and their potential victims overseas know that.

it was billed as the greatest novel of the 20th century...after wading thru the first few chapters, i remarked that it was a shame that trees were cut down to provide the paper that mess was printed on.

they banned it supposedly because it was pornographic...i think it's really because it sucked.

Oh, my, reason abounds! If you have more or different information at a later time, please relay it. I'd love to hear a differing opinion ;)

F*cking 'eh...I gotta get internet at home. This sh*t of trying to catch up on threads like this is killing me.


Carry on...

the trick is to pace yourself,Kev!

I wish this country would cut aid and diplomatic ties with Pakistan. They are not this country's friend on the fight on terrorism like some people in this country thinks they are. I'm pretty confident they knew where Bin Laden was hiding at. Pakistan doesn't this country's aid period. The aid Pakistan gets could be used for helping the homeless people.

They got nukes.....and we've pandered to them for so long! I was thinking the Braintrust will have to figure that one out, and then I remembered.....

Thanks

you might want to put a bit more thought into why we are working w/paskistan, what we've been doing in pakistan, the geography of the region, and who else we are allied with there-as well as who we are opposed to there. maybe you'll see there's more to it than what you've come up with so far.

some questions , while we're on the subject. do you imagine that many of our allies would sit by and watch, with not much more than the occasional 'hey!', while we conducted drone strikes, bombings, raids, killings, etc within their borders? do you think that maybe pakistan make noises once in a while so as not to seem just to be our puppet, in order to keep some of their most unhappy citizens off their backs?

How many allies do we have where it's custom for a father to kill his daughter in order to preserve his honor?

Play with dogs you get fleas. These people are lower than dogs!

I keep bringing this fact up because how are we to expect them to believe the killing of innocent people is evil when killing their own innocent family members is acceptable and their culture? :zz:

Again (an this is getting stressful for me) I have to agree with your point Dell. I've considered myself a feminist most of my life and I place the highest value on equal rights for women (all minorities as well). It's difficult for me to support a culture that denies them equality let alone one that treats them as slaves. The unfortunate fact is that most of the "third world" falls under this description. We, as a nation, are forced to deal with countries such as China, India and Pakistan for our own security. India is an example of an evolving culture where women and minorities are receiving more and more equal treatment. China has at least "opened up" somewhat and their economy has become more and more geared toward the principles of a free market. Civil rights still have a long way to go there but some progress has been made. Pakistan has the potential to follow in India's footsteps, when we abandoned them in the 90's they slipped back into basically a dictatorship, since we have improved relations, they show some signs of evolving. The government still must walk a tightrope by being an ally to the west while not pissing off the more radical Muslim population. Also the central government has little authority in the far reaches of the country. All in all, they may try our patience but it's a matter of the lesser of two evils.

india is our ally, they still have areas there where folks throw a widow on her husbands funeral pyre. china is our #1 trading partner, they don't exactly have a stellar human rights' record. or womens' rights for that matter, where female babies are routinely abandoned, aborted, or killed. after all, if you can only have one, it better be a boy-girls are a dime a dozen.

at any rate, way to go with exploring the logic in what i said, or refuting it with logic.
when you say 'these people' do you mean all pakistanis, or just the ones who believe in honor killings? because, even tho it might be hard for you to grasp, 'they' don't all think that way.

just like not 'all of us' are of the same belief about things.


edit~and now i see somer already used the same three countries!

I may not like some cultural aspects of some of their citizens, but if the growing-into-the-fourth largest country in the world is chronically politically unstable and also has nuclear weapons - yeah. We have a real vested interest in what happens there.

The people who look the other way, sisters, uncles, aunts are similarly guilty and judging by the NY column I posted where numbers are in the 80% range for arranged marriage, I'd say most. OF course EVERYONE involved in a honor killing (thought to number 4,000 over the last 10 years in Pakistan) is bin Lladen like scum. Also these girls aren't normally killed with a single shot or painless drugging but instead are butchered. I'm am sure somewhere in Pakistan is at least a few people with enough common sense to fight what they know is evil however they still must be in the minority and thus silent.

BTW India has a caste system that is a slap in the face of human rights. Sorry born with the wrong last name you're a beggar for life. China compared to where they were have come a long way but still treat their citizens like one would control a roach problem. But killing your own daughter to preserve your own honor? That's a special Dahmer-like sickness/evil. Meanwhile the Human Rights council of the UN wants details on the bin Laden raid? :eek:

If my math is correct bin Laden's 19 year old wife who now reportedly was sent to him 5 years previous was 14 when she arrived? She is from Yemen so I suspect they also have 'issues' shall we say. Can we find the proud father-in-law?

just so you know, i find all those things abhorrent...but as a country, we many times look away at certain things in order to further our agenda. that's what's happening in this case.
hell, look at one of our big allies during ww2. stalin was a monster, remember? but he was the lesser of two evils at the time.

pakistan is similar to that. we do what we can when we can; perhaps in future we can help them change. that takes time.

Sorry we disagree but we need to take the high road. If we can stop mothers from packing school lunches for their children surely we can require fathers not to marry off or kill their daughters.

Certainly this should never occur in America, as I've said before...life in prison or deport their butt (for forced marriages)...!

But it does. 15 miles from where I grew up a girl is on the run 16 (I think) because of her barbaric father and the chicago press are giving little coverage (apparantly she's being safe housed thank God and allah) and the coverage they do, shows a grieving father with no explaination of why the daughter is missing tho most everyone knows the 'Paul Harvey' full version.

Father facing no charges. :wf:zz::mad:

The freakin Kentucky Derby just ran. What are you all talking about?

Edit: Sorry, I should never come to this section of the forum. B'bye.

Personally speaking I despise turf/poly horses who do well on dirt. Just venting here I guess.

Not a big Cigar fan I take it?:D

it's all well and good to say that, but we have a big issue over there, and we need pakistans assistance (limited as it is). doesn't mean we like how things are there, or agree with them, or want their ways to become ours. besides, isn't the saying you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?? look at tunisia, egypt...people there are moving towards freedom; the same can happen elsewhere, including pakistan. as word spreads, so will freedom and change.

We have 2 options we give them the 3.5 billion and find out whether they're friends or we give them nothing and find out the same thing. With the second suggestion we save 3.5 billion. No brainer IMO.

At a minimum, the new Egypt is likely to be less friendly to the US and less committed to peace with Israel, both of whom are popularly associated with the Mubarak regime. As such, Egypt would be far less inclined to support American policies in the region, including counter-terrorism cooperation, and to play its traditional stabilizing role in the peace process and Mideast generally. An Egypt such as this would constitute a dramatic change for the worse in the regional balance of power.

http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/...y-on-the-nile/

dell, when you did a google search and found that article, how many search results had an opposite view?

Cigar was a dirt horse who had been run on the wrong surface for the first part of his career!

A couple said Egypt has new freedom to impose religious law, that's all I could find other than individual quotes. Not good for what we consider little girls and who 'they' consider wife material. I'm talking 12-13 year olds mind you and sometimes cousins. Sick MFO's !!!!!

Can't wait to see bin Laden's Yemini father-in-law and all the father in laws on all the news shows and The View, Maddow etc etc. They'll get him (them) I'm sure.

i admire your fortitude. i was going to try to post some witty variation of "don't waste your time" when i saw this.

now that dell's responded i'll do the same as him and dispose of wit.

don't waste your time.

the conversations here are generally about shouting points and framing all opposing viewpoints as equivalent to supporting slavery.

they're all terrorists and child molesters. nothing you post can change that.

And Muslim = Hindu = .... oh, what the hell.

Hindus<<<<<<< Muslims

They don't kill their daughters. Minor details.