Please show me where the poll states that. I could't find it.

I said "In step 1 we are now going to 'expand' Medicaid? Is this the same Medicaid we were going to take 2/3 of 'waste money' from?

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31304

You seemed under the impression we were going to use wasted money from Medicaid and apply it to a streamlined system that would cover far more people at a cheaper cost. That was the fodder for my reponse.

And how does a Presdent who uses the post office as a government agency that competes with the private sector admitting it's crappy as an example of gov./private sector competition make sense when applied to a gov. health insurance company?

You didn't read the poll, you were reading an interpretation of the poll. You can find the actual poll on the NBC website.

Don't you think it's scarily significant that 45% of the people interviewed regarding this very important legislation falsely believe something that's absolutely, positively not true?

Kinda like you believing Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, when it's been made public for over a year now.

I'ts not my "impression", Dell. Obama has clearly said that the majority of funding for the healthcare reform package (the parts that need funding) will come from collection of wasted money from Medicare (not Medicaid). I want to see that to believe it.

BTW, the President never said the PO was crappy :) (Try giving the PO, UPS and Fed Ex a regular business letter with an address on it, and see what each charges you for delivery)

The current government health insurance companies apparently do well enough, that you can't find anybody covered by them that wants to give up their coverage :p

Answer this for me, Dell: do you buy your own health insurance, or is your health insurance paid for by your employer, or do you have no health insurance?

It's the interpretation of the bill. No there will be no panel deciding whether grandma dies or lives but there will surely be panels who decide what Dr.'s and hospitals you can go to and how often that for some will be a death sentence.

Ah, now I see, I think you are confusing two entirely different topics regarding healthcare reform.

One proposal made (but not strongly supported, and I think it's off the table) is to expand Medicaid to be more inclusive, and pick up more people (lessening the number of uninsured that will have to be covered by other parts of healthcare reform).

The second is how the healthcare reform bill overall costs will be paid for, which involves savings from waste in Medicare.

It is much more troubling to me when the Attorney General says things that are absolutely, positively not true.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...019115348.html


Its scary that 53% of Americans thought Obama would be the answer. That wont happen again.



And Obama brought the Birth Certificate thing on himself by refusing to allow the public to see it. It isnt like it is nude photos or something...

You realize the above is exactly what exists now, in private healthcare? The private insurance carriers tell you what doctors and hospitals you can go to, they tell doctors what treatments they will pay for and which they will not (yes, they do dictate medical care to doctors in a way), they can refuse treatment for covered problems after they have agreed to cover it with no legal recourse of the patient (happened to me), and private insurance companies can and do refuse to pay for treatments, or continued treatments, such decisions having caused the deaths of people.

That is WHY healthcare reform and consumer protection is so important. Because what you fear is happening now.

Sometimes I wonder if you understand what you are fighting for?
If you have doubts that the majority of funding for healthcare reform will come from the collection of wasted more from Medicare then how can you possibly support these measures? The only way to find out if it can happen is to do it! What if your suspicions are correct? Too late.

The Post office loses billions of dollars a year. They have farmed out much of their overnight business (which is lucrative) to UPS and FedEX because they are not nearly as good as the private companies.

The current govt health insurance companies are free. Who gives up free stuff?

Yeah, I don't know about Holder. We'll see.

Obama put his birth certificate out there over a year ago during the campaign. It's on the internet.

Here: for the few remaining conspiracy theorists <vbg>

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp

I pay for my own. Had a heart check and lung (MRI) independant of the insurance kind of a home inspection. I do have a large deductable that keeps the policy very reasonable for what it covers if things go bad. And yes I'm happy w/it.

Because I don't automatically and unthinkingly segregate complex social issues into political black and white, for and against, based upon political affiliation?

I will agree it does happen now but just as I would trust UPS or FedEx way more than the Post Office with something important/expensive I trust private insurance and for that matter private Dr.'s more than a government panel with decisions that are pretty important....

Everybody is happy with their insurance coverage until they are not :) Especially the younger one is, and the less pre-existing conditions one has.

Wouldn't you like your insurance company to be willing to cover more preventative care, rather than repairative care, like that MRI?

If that MRI you paid for because you wanted good preventative care had found something (let's say something minor you need to keep an eye on in the future), do you realize that your insurance company can choose to arbitrarily and immediately drop you for any future coverage stemming from those findings, or put limits on how much they will pay for any problem during your lifetime.

Don't you find that a little scary?

Usually when someone is so heavily in favor of trillion dollar projects they dont have potential issues with the funding sources of said project. Show me an example where I have come out against any policy of anyone without solid reasoning.

I recognize politics for what it is and politicians for what they are.

Which is why legislation should be written that prevents these unfortunate issues. That is the answer, not Trillion dollar govt programs with suspect funding.

But of course the Lawyers and Insurance lobbys wont have that will they?

That is exactly what the current healthcare reform packages include.

Nowhere near as scary as a congressional appointed panel deciding who gets care and who doesn't no matter whether it leans right or left. Will postal employees get preferential treatment, teachers? Let the private sector decide based on monetary considerations that correspond far more closely to the amount an individual contributed to social and government programs in the first place. You know Capitalism, the American Way!

Not exactly...

This is pretty funny - Jon Stewart explains how FoxNews should now be considered "liberal mainstream media".

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

You should know that private plans give the patients a hellova lot more options than HMO or Medicare!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090826/...h_for_clunkers

Some numbers on cash for clunkers

They left out all the GREEN detals of the program! The fact the program saved a half of a day per year in fuel consumption (Yea Scuds we really stuck it to those greedy Arabs w/this one) and 2 hrs per year of green house gases to start in 2 and a half years and last 7 and 1/2 years after. Almost a whole day of emission per TEN years.

Wasn't as funny as Obama sending stimulous money to inmates. Wasn't just a single clerical error as FOUR THOUSAND got them! Dirty guards and local drug dealers are benefitting I'm sure. :$: :$: :zz:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...&position=also

Sometimes.

The point is, first, that patients have options.

Secondly, those options depends upon the private plan you purchase. There are catastrophic only plans, limited plans, companies that don't write in certain states, etc. As you age, or if you develop any medical problems, your options become more and more limited. If you lose or quit your job, you do have the opportunity to purchase (continue) your insurance under COBRA, but good luck on paying for that, as the insurance company will now charge you as an individual for what your boss was paying for in a discounted group. If you cross state lines, you can rarely take your insurance with you - thus you start from scratch. At this point, the new insurer (even if the same "company") can bar you from coverage for anything you've previously made a claim on, or is an ongoing medical problem.

That's how the insurance companies save money. Although rates are estimated to rise 10% this year, regardless of healthcare reform.

It also depends upon the insurance company agreeing to honor the contract it makes with you. You see, it's an unregulated industry, thus, even if you have an expensive, very inclusive plan, the insurance company can choose to alter that plan at their whim. And you have no recourse.

They can drop you if you make a claim, refuse to cover you for things in your policy, rescind your policy, put cap limits on an illness, find something pre-existing in your past history to disallow current treatment (the "famous" one being talked about now in the debate is the person who was denied treatment for malignant melanoma - skin cancer - as they had had acne with treatment in their past)

Health care reform is all about increasing the options people seeking healthcare have.

You're really reaching to find something, anything bad about this, aren't you? :D :tro:

Warm it up, Dell - appliance rebates contained within the stimulus package come later this year

OH MY GAWD, that's an error rate of 0.007% :eek:

Give me a break. Part of this whole BS was the benefit to the environment. If you think saving a half a day of fuel/year and 20 Hrs of 'greenhouse gas emissions' over a 10 year period was worth it so be it. We at least did get a glimpse of what the government considers a success when 2,000 workers failed to process 690,000 rebate forms over the 30 days. Lets see that’s 345 per worker over 30 days or roughly 11 a day (oops they get w/e's off make it 17/day). Now consider how much more complicated an insurance form is and they want to run health care? Funny in a sick way. By the way if your insurance won’t cover you Cook County Hospital (oops now Stroger Hospital) will take you tonight. ChucklestheClown says it’s better than Northwestern Memorial and he’s been to both. :zz:

yea you're right ...who cares if 4 murderers and 5 rapists out of 23 (that's 39% from one facility) got some stim. money?

An estimated 42,000 jobs will be created or saved during the second half of the year, the White House said.

They just continue to make things up...

So: them predicting the future is bad, and what they say is a lie; but you predicting the future is true and reliable.

Yeah, those damn unreliable government programs, millions and millions and millions of participants, and they goof up 0.007 of the time. Terrible!

Yes, but the overwhelming main purpose was to stimulate the economy. Which it did very well.

I'm serious about the appliance rebates. Get your blood pressure up now ;) (but you don't have to trade anything in)

You have to get a clue. They just make these numbers up because there is no way to either verify or deny them. Do they have a crystal ball? How exactly do you count "saved" jobs? You cant. Do you think companies call the White House and say I was gonna lay off 100 people but now I'm not going to? There is a 100 saved?

IF you could validate or prove any of the numbers they would simply pull the same excuse that they used when their unemployement numbers were way off, blame it on the information.

Perhaps if you spent more time doubting the obvious bs that they are shoving in our faces all the time instead of blindly defending political nonsense you may be better able to understand, especially someone with a supposed GOP background.

The actual stimlus provided by Cash for Clunkers is a few drops of water in a 10 gallon bucket. Saying it will provide anything more than a brief and unsustainable blip on the car sales radar screen is silly.

will murderers and rapists be getting mini-fridges?

Why are you still arguing with Riot? I'm a liberal and love arguing with you Chuck but the stuff that Riot comes up with is not only amazingly nonpartisan (as she likes to claim) but is borderline mentally retarded. Please Riot, just give it up, you are the most liberal person on this forum times ten and you even scare me. You are like the Timmy of liberals.

She knows that and knows the environmental benefit is a couple drops in Lake Michigan but never let the truth and or common sense get in the way of people who 'get it'. Whatever 'it' is it's nothing good.

Hell every other liberal gave up...there is no one left to spar with!



Plus she tosses so 81 mph fastballs right down the middle...

She is the Livan Hernandez of political boards.