Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Absolutely he would have. He had won the 6.5 furlong Vosburgh by 6 1/2 lengths, in last-to-first fashion, in the supersonic final time of 1:14 3/5ths. In the words of Tom Durkin after the wire that day: "Just 1/5th off the track record in the 66th Vosburgh Stakes.....Ghostzapper...a sprinting force!" Instead of passing the BC Sprint...Frankel would have run him in the BC Dirt Mile after the Vosburgh. Which, he would have won.
Ghostzapper was a half sibling to confirmed sprinter City Zip...and Frankel waited until August of his 4-year-old season to stretch him out. Here are some quotes.

Before his 4yo debut in the 7 furlong Tom Fool "Trainer Bobby Frankel opted to skip the Breeders' Cup Sprint because he believed Ghostzapper's closing style would work against him at Santa Anita."

After his 4yo debut win in the Tom Fool "Frankel, who won the Tom Fool last year with Aldebaran, said Ghostzapper would be pointed to the $200,000 Alfred G. Vanderbilt at Saratoga on Aug. 14 as a prep for the Grade 1 Forego on Sept. 4, also at Saratoga. Frankel said he is inclined to try and stretch out Ghostzapper here in the fall.

"With the speed he showed [Sunday], going long you might be able to sit there with him and turn him loose in the stretch," Frankel said. "Everybody wants to pigeonhole him as a sprinter; we don't know. He's an easy horse to rate."

Here is what was published in the DRF on why Frankel pulled out of the SIX FURLONG Vanderbilt Stakes. "Instead, Frankel will now point Ghostzapper to the Grade 3, $200,000 Philip Iselin Handicap at Monmouth Park on Aug. 21.

Frankel wouldn't come out and say it, but part of what went into his decision is his dissatisfaction with the weight assignments for the race. Ghostzapper was assigned 122 pounds, compared with 120 for Speightstown."

How can you be so sure that Ghostzapper would have run in the Classic, as a 4-year-old, if they had a Breeders Cup Dirt Mile. While the purse of the Classic is much greater---a Breeders Cup win, at the important commercial stallion distance of a mile on dirt, isn't exacly something to scoff at. Most Breeders Cup Classic meant horses, aren't looking to run in six furlong races in Mid-August.




Bernardini probably (maybe almost certainly) beats Invasor this year if all of the cheap speed that was in that race (Brother Derek, Lawyer Ron etc.) opted for the dirt mile instead. With a slower pace, he wouldn't have been gunned as early as he was by Castallano. Giacomo, would of also not run as well.

A horse like Concern, would have never won the Classic without the intense pace setup he got.

I also happen to think fast-paced championship races are much more exciting to watch than the slower-paced tactical versions we are now more likely to see.

Originally Posted by Linny

Would you rather run against Sun King and Lawyer Ron for $1m or Invasor and Premium Tap for $3m. If you have Bernardini, you go for the Classic, if you have a lesser G1 winner or a non G1 winner or have any doubts about your horse being a G1 quality 10f horse, you skip to the Dirt Mile.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

And Discreet Cat? The problem is horses like Lawyer Ron should have never been in the BC Classic to begin with. Too many connections of horses are convinced their horses are way better than they are and I doubt many of them are going to be convinced that their horse doesn't have a shot in the Classic so should go in the Dirt Mile.

Originally Posted by merasmag

of plagarism-LOL...or else it's a matter of great minds thinking alike---these guys here aren't into racing so i can't turn the speakers on to hear your show...and the witching hour is THE BEST time to do racing stuff, not to mention i have actual work to do during the day-GO BEARS!!!

Originally Posted by Kasept

Your work during the day isn't of great concern to me.. The wake of your befoulings at night are. Your visits are akin to the nocturnal mischief of raccoons and possums, and as such, I tire of coming here every morning to find the garage rummaged through and the garbage cans overturned...

Your edgy chortle above doesn't approach anything resembling a retraction or apology despite a clear presentation belying your insult. I'm waiting...

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

And Discreet Cat? The problem is horses like Lawyer Ron should have never been in the BC Classic to begin with. Too many connections of horses are convinced their horses are way better than they are and I doubt many of them are going to be convinced that their horse doesn't have a shot in the Classic so should go in the Dirt Mile.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think what some people are missing is that there aren't enough quality horses racing to fill the new races. It will simply cause both a dilution and lessening of quality.

Isn't it enough that the BC has cannabalized Grade 1 racing around the country......did they really also need to savage themselves?

Originally Posted by Linny

Look at "07. After the top 3 finishers and Lava Man, were any of them truly legit G1, 10f horses?

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I listed these before but do you really think a race comprised of the horses on this list would have been that terrible of a G1? And I don't think any of the other races would have been overly compromised by the loss of the horses listed below.

Discreet Cat
Silver Train
Badge of Silver
Sun King
Brother Derek
Lawyer Ron
Sharp Humor
Siren Lure
Wanderin Boy
Super Frolic
Mass Media
Commentator
Lewis Michael
Sir Greeley
War Front
It's No Joke
Magna Graduate
Papi Chullo
Straight Line
Awesome Twist

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Pretty much....I do think it would have been a terrible Grade 1, especially considering what it would have done to two other Grade 1s being run that day.

There are some names on that list that barely belong out of claiming races.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all your list would have taken EIGHT horses out of other BC races.


Secondly, five competed in a $200K Grade 2 or 3 race earlier in the day, so I can't imagine how you could even suggest they belong in a Grade 1 championship race.

Thirdly, of the remaining seven, one was hurt ( Commentator )or he would have belonged in the my first grouping, Mass Media had barely competed in 2006, Sharp Humor had made his first start off an injury in a race restricted to NY Breds two weeks earlier and Sir Greeley was too busy sucking up for second in a race that collapsed on that very day in NY ( and was also coming off a layoff ).

That leaves my friend Wanderin Boy, who I am biased about, and while he might have been reasonable, I can't defend his being one of the main contendors in ANY championship race....Silver Train who won the BC Sprint in the prior year and yet did not defend that title so one could say he belongs in my initial category, and Discreet Cat....who I already said belonged. however, one could also argue that there were other BC races for him and he chose to simply sit out.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I would contend that David Junior was a legitimate 10f horse (and George Washington ran a big race), the dirt experiment just went awry...but that will continue to happen with Euro horses because some of them will handle it wonderfully (Giant's Causeway, Sahkee...), and others like David Junior won't handle it.

I don't think it means they don't belong per se.

Originally Posted by Linny

Geo Washington did run well considering that he'd have been odds on in the Mile and the move to the Classic was a sporting attempt to duplicate the sensation of Giant's Causeway's game effort in defeat.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I wouldn't classify it as a " sporting attempt " at all. It was a monetary decision based on his potential increased value with a first or second place finish. Even a victory in the BC mile would have done little to increase his value.

If anything, one could argue they robbed one race of a potentially exciting performer to barely enhance another due to personal greed.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I wouldn't classify it as a " sporting attempt " at all. It was a monetary decision based on his potential increased value with a first or second place finish. Even a victory in the BC mile would have done little to increase his value.

If anything, one could argue they robbed one race of a potentially exciting performer to barely enhance another due to personal greed.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Not to mention a shot at the Sheiks.