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ateamstupid 06-13-2010 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalakhani (Post 657354)
If she wins back to back BC's, regardless of whatever else happens, are you saying she wouldnt win HOY?
Not if Quality Road keeps going the way he is. As Travis said, it's Horse of the Year, not Horse of the Race.

As for Jessica Is Back vs. St Trinians, I don't think either is very good, but seeing the Zenlovers hedging and suddenly hyping up ST like she's Congaree is hilarious.

As for Rachel's race, I just simply disagree that yesterday's field was significantly weaker than the La Troienne or the NOL were. So yeah, winning by 10 1/2 and running faster than the Foster (heh) is more impressive to me than losing to the two mediocrities she had lost to this year. You have a solid point that we won't know truly if she still has it until she has a stiffer challenge, but to say that the FDL wasn't a step forward for her is crazy IMO.

kgar311 06-13-2010 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalakhani (Post 657354)
LOL She won the damn breeders cup classic last year and that wasnt enough was it? And I could probably come up with at least 100 posts from this board that downplayed that as if it wasnt that big of a deal. So now you are telling me that Im making ridiculous statements because I don't think beating Rail Trip on synthetic or Blame in the month of June would have enough bite to win an eclipse. Okay then.

Start Making nessecary statements? LOL She has got 3 races left tops including today. She is a 6 year old mare that was supposed to have already been retired. She makes a prep in the fall and then the bc. If she wins back to back BC's, regardless of whatever else happens, are you saying she wouldnt win HOY? And that being the case, why bother with these nonsense "statements" that have no real historical significance?
As far as I'm concerned zenyatta is not even in discussions for HOY at this point, what has she done do deserve it so far?? Nothing. She better start making any statement she can at this point. Another meatball schedule is not doing her any favors up till now. And another thing she is not even the front runner coming out of Cali right now for HOY, Rail Trip is ahead of her currently imo

parsixfarms 06-13-2010 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 657369)
As for Jessica Is Back vs. St Trinians, I don't think either is very good, but seeing the Zenlovers hedging and suddenly hyping up ST like she's Congaree is hilarious.
I haven't seen anyone on this thread compare St. Trinians to Congaree or any other top flight handicap horse. That being said, to equate beating the Wolfson-trained Jessica Is Back on non-Calder dirt to beating St. Trinians on synthetics is a huge stretch. After all, St. Trinians defeated Life Is Sweet over the same Pro-ride surface on which Life Is Sweet won the BC Distaff, and that performance made her the 3-1 favorite in the Big 'Cap. (If do I recall correctly, however, DrugS was on here extolling the virtues of St. Trinians last winter and fall as a synthetic freak that Zenyatta should legitimately fear.)

dean smith 06-13-2010 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgar311 (Post 657375)
As far as I'm concerned zenyatta is not even in discussions for HOY at this point, what has she done do deserve it so far?? Nothing. She better start making any statement she can at this point. Another meatball schedule is not doing her any favors up till now. And another thing she is not even the front runner coming out of Cali right now for HOY, Rail Trip is ahead of her currently imo
If Zenyatta does nothing but beat fields full of miniature ponies at county fairs the rest of the year and remains undefeated, they will give her HOY for lifetime achievement... or as an apology for the previous two years. Believe it.

hockey2315 06-13-2010 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean smith (Post 657395)
If Zenyatta does nothing but beat fields full of miniature ponies at county fairs the rest of the year and remains undefeated, they will give her HOY for lifetime achievement... or as an apology for the previous two years. Believe it.
This is very wrong.

ateamstupid 06-13-2010 05:26 PM
It'd be pretty damn hilarious (and telling) if Zenyatta went 20-for-20 and never won HOY.

RockHardTen1985 06-13-2010 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 657400)
It'd be pretty damn hilarious (and telling) if Zenyatta went 20-for-20 and never won HOY.
If she went 20-20, I think she would have to win the Classic this year, and that would assure her HOY....
But like Brian said above, he is simply wrong. QR and Blame are both legit, QR is actually far ahead right now for HOY IMO.

ateamstupid 06-13-2010 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 657401)
If she went 20-20, I think she would have to win the Classic this year, and that would assure her HOY....
But like Brian said above, he is simply wrong. QR and Blame are both legit, QR is actually far ahead right now for HOY IMO.
I disagree that the Classic would assure her anything if they keep going the safe route. If QR wins the Donn, Met Mile, Whitney and Woodward, that would probably beat (essentially) just a BCC win.

RockHardTen1985 06-13-2010 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 657402)
I disagree that the Classic would assure her anything if they keep going the safe route. If QR wins the Donn, Met Mile, Whitney and Woodward, that would probably beat (essentially) just a BCC win.
You know I am the biggest QR guy around, but I disagree.... If she wins the Classic this year, I would think she has to win it, but these are all huge ifs...For the record, I think QR is sitting on a MONSTER YEAR, and he will win HOY.

Indian Charlie 06-13-2010 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 657403)
You know I am the biggest QR guy around, but I disagree.... If she wins the Classic this year, I would think she has to win it, but these are all huge ifs...For the record, I think QR is sitting on a MONSTER YEAR, and he will win HOY.
For the record, huh?

I'm glad you finally took a strong position on the horse.

ateamstupid 06-13-2010 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 657403)
You know I am the biggest QR guy around, but I disagree.... If she wins the Classic this year, I would think she has to win it, but these are all huge ifs...For the record, I think QR is sitting on a MONSTER YEAR, and he will win HOY.
He's already had a great year, it's a shame they're only going to run him six times. And there's no way in hell he beats Zenyatta at 1 1/4.

RockHardTen1985 06-13-2010 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 657405)
He's already had a great year, it's a shame they're only going to run him six times. And there's no way in hell he beats Zenyatta at 1 1/4.
Hmm.... I dont think he will have as much of a problem going 10f then everyone else does, his JCGC was fine IMO. If he gets a fast dirt track I think hes long gone.

NTamm1215 06-13-2010 06:22 PM
I think the doubts about Quality Road getting 10 furlongs are based on a fallacy, and that's that he was the same horse he was in 2009. I think that's largely untrue based on his last two races.

I find those that consider QR losing to Summer Bird twice as an indictment of his ability to get 10 furlongs are ignoring the circumstances. If you can't make adjustments or concessions for dull performances based on conditions or other independent factors you'll have a very hard time making money betting on thoroughbred racing.

NT

Cannon Shell 06-13-2010 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms (Post 657393)
I haven't seen anyone on this thread compare St. Trinians to Congaree or any other top flight handicap horse. That being said, to equate beating the Wolfson-trained Jessica Is Back on non-Calder dirt to beating St. Trinians on synthetics is a huge stretch. After all, St. Trinians defeated Life Is Sweet over the same Pro-ride surface on which Life Is Sweet won the BC Distaff, and that performance made her the 3-1 favorite in the Big 'Cap. (If do I recall correctly, however, DrugS was on here extolling the virtues of St. Trinians last winter and fall as a synthetic freak that Zenyatta should legitimately fear.)
Beating either of those horses is not an accomplishment that one should cherish.

ateamstupid 06-13-2010 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 657409)
I think the doubts about Quality Road getting 10 furlongs are based on a fallacy, and that's that he was the same horse he was in 2009. I think that's largely untrue based on his last two races.

I find those that consider QR losing to Summer Bird twice as an indictment of his ability to get 10 furlongs are ignoring the circumstances. If you can't make adjustments or concessions for dull performances based on conditions or other independent factors you'll have a very hard time making money betting on thoroughbred racing.

NT
An equal fallacy is the presumption that Quality Road hates wet tracks IMO. He was beaten twice at the distance by a horse that didn't possess his talent. And he's better this year than last? Maybe marginally, but he ran some phenomenal races last season. He's been a superstar both years.

dean smith 06-13-2010 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 657402)
I disagree that the Classic would assure her anything if they keep going the safe route. If QR wins the Donn, Met Mile, Whitney and Woodward, that would probably beat (essentially) just a BCC win.
So, a 20-20 lifetime record and a head-to-head win vs. QR in the BCC (especially if the field includes RA...) would not be enough to win Zenyatta HOY? A second BCC in a row, btw.

Respectfully, you are high.

Unless the anti-West Coast bias is stronger than I thought.

dalakhani 06-13-2010 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 657421)
Beating either of those horses is not an accomplishment that one should cherish.
What are your thoughts on the performance yesterday?

hockey2315 06-13-2010 06:36 PM
I know they were still battling foot issues w/ him last summer and fall. . . I don't think he's a "true" 10F horse, but he may just be so much better than most if not all of his competition that it won't matter.

slotdirt 06-13-2010 06:36 PM
I would suggest that anybody who thinks Zenyatta's really going to cross those dreaded Rockies again is the one who is smoking something off.

ateamstupid 06-13-2010 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean smith (Post 657423)
So, a 20-20 lifetime record and a head-to-head win vs. QR in the BCC (especially if the field includes RA...) would not be enough to win Zenyatta HOY? A second BCC in a row, btw.

Respectfully, you are high.

Unless the anti-West Coast bias is stronger than I thought.
Is it Horse of the Life or Horse of the Year? Your assumption that she'd be home free is based on the idea that the voters will treat it as a lifetime achievement award. That's made up. She was 14-for-14 after the Classic last year and she still didn't get it.


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