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parsixfarms 09-03-2009 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
The Haskell was race 13. The winners of races 11, 12 and 14 all raced inside.
I guess we may have to agree to disagree. But Get Serious winning at 3-5 by a neck over a turf horse like Kiss the Kid after getting away with a 49 half probably does not support the conclusion that the rail was OK. If anything, under the circumstances (and his previously shown affinity for slop at Monmouth), you'd probably expect him to win by a wider margin.

Antitrust32 09-03-2009 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62
If the race is at distance and at a Track having a bias that heavily favors RA you are right. Any other Distance / Track it is a moot point becuase RA won't be there. She is being managed not to ever be put in a situation that isn't heavily tilted in her favor. This won't be lost on those voting for HOY.

:zz:

Did you watch the Preakness?

Antitrust32 09-03-2009 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
What horse isn't being campaigned in the best possible place to WIN?

not just that but.... How the hell would the Preakness have been the best possible place to win?

Two weeks off a huge romp that SCREAMED BOUNCE and a trainer change! Going a pretty far distance against boys.

Some of the stuff I hear on here makes PG1985 look brilliant.

Antitrust32 09-03-2009 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boswd
Not the Summer Bird that showed up at The Traver's, the only thing we can on is The Preakness RA Held on, you all can try and convince yourselfs she was in totall control but she held on and if that race was a 1 1/4 she loses, plain and simple. Summer Bird loves the extra distance.

At a 1 1/8 RA wins 1 1/4 Beating Summer Bird like a drum? I don't think so.

If the Mother Goose had been 1 1/4 and Summer Bird was in the race she would have beat him by 15. She was so fast that day its insane.

If the Haskell had been 1 1/4 she would have won by a dozen.

People need to check out her final times and SB's final times. While SB is a really nice colt who I like... they arent on the same planet.

hockey2315 09-03-2009 12:56 PM
Final times? Oh god.

The Indomitable DrugS 09-03-2009 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
Get Serious winning at 3-5 by a neck over a turf horse like Kiss the Kid

The last two dirt Beyers Get Serious ran were 82 and 69. The last two dirt Beyers Kiss The Kid ran were 93 and 99.

Kiss The Kid was 2-for-2 on wet tracks with Beyers of 101 and 99. Get Serious was 1-for-3 on wet tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
after getting away with a 49 half probably does not support the conclusion that the rail was OK.
Get Serious wasn't exactly loose .. Kiss The Kid was a half length back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
If anything, under the circumstances (and his previously shown affinity for slop at Monmouth), you'd probably expect him to win by a wider margin.
Get Serious ran a 69 Beyer the last time he raced on a wet Monmouth Park track.

I didn't expect Get Serious to beat Kiss the Kid by any margin even with the pace advantage and inside position. Get Serious is a turf horse.

Since Forbes has taken over the training of Get Serious .. he's run Beyers of 97, 101, and 103 in his 3 turf races.

CSC 09-03-2009 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
It shows that you are making no sense at all.





For the record .. I'm not "hot under the collar" in the least and I'm not concerned with attacking your board cred.






It is Mr. DrugS to you.
This is all great and all, but I still I don't get it, how does this exactly relate to Rachel Alexandra beating Summer Bird like a drum if they meet in the JCGC? Mr. DrugS...

Sightseek 09-03-2009 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
This is all great and all, but I still I don't get it, how does this exactly relate to Rachel Alexandra beating Summer Bird like a drum if they meet in the JCGC? Mr. DrugS...
That is a fine question.

And something you should answer since you're the one who posted the surface argument in your attempts to undermine Rachel.

parsixfarms 09-03-2009 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
If anything, under the circumstances (and his previously shown affinity for slop at Monmouth), you'd probably expect him to win by a wider margin.
You're right on this horse. I confused him with Actin Good (winner on BC undercard).

CSC 09-03-2009 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
That is a fine question.

And something you should answer since you're the one who posted the surface argument in your attempts to undermine Rachel.
In addition, I don't agree in the correalation between grass being equal to synthetics when it comes to comparing Cigar to RA.

My argument is I believe dirt and poly should be synomonous or atleast closer than dirt/turf.

CSC 09-03-2009 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
That is a fine question.

And something you should answer since you're the one who posted the surface argument in your attempts to undermine Rachel.
I missed a part of your reply, here's my answer:

I introduced it towards the argument of Zenyatta mostly, it would seem to be a contradiction at first however Cigar on the other hand I think we can agree was campaigned agressively during his career. I don't think it's the same thing comparing him to RA. Who knows if there were poly back then he would have been bad on it, maybe he would have been good on it, we just don't know. However Zenyatta did win the Apple Blossom, a significant stakes race and RA has not yet on 2 surfaces.

And it is just CSC to you, no Mr.

Antitrust32 09-03-2009 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey2315
Final times? Oh god.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well he doesnt want to look at Beyers, which show who is the faster horse... Why not look at final times? People judge great horses on how fast they run. If you dont believe that then your helpless. How often do you hear about Big Red's time in the Derby/Preakness/Belmont when talking about greatness.

Her Beyers are better than Summer Bird, her race times have been much faster, the only other thing she could do to prove she's better is beat him head to head. Oh right, she trounced him already, just a month ago.

King Glorious 09-03-2009 02:19 PM
I believe that in all sports, whenever there is a tie for something, the first tie-breaker is head-to-head results.

Rachel has HOY locked already. She wins this weekend, toss the key.

Antitrust32 09-03-2009 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
In addition, I don't agree in the correalation between grass being equal to synthetics when it comes to comparing Cigar to RA.

My argument is I believe dirt and poly should be synomonous or atleast closer than dirt/turf.

:zz:

CSC 09-03-2009 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32
:zz:
The point is why compare Cigar to RA in the 1st place when synthetic tracks were not around back then. Cigar didn't race well on turf, everyone knows the story, I am not suggesting RA race on turf, but as mentioned by another poster RA has won on poly, abeit it was not a significant win...but it was a win, then why the reluctance to race in the BC?

freddymo 09-03-2009 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
No I dont have a hard on for the filly in any way. While I admit that Jackson is not a favorite the logic of saying that a Belmont, Travers, Gold Cup and BC Classic winner isnt a horse of the year contender over a Oaks, Preakness, Haskell, Woodward winner is unusual.

Switching barns has no bearing on the award and you thinking we havent seen her bottom doesnt either. While Beyers are not an end all the thought that she would have whipped a horse that just won a grade 1 easily with a 110 beyer is laughable. If you read through my scenario you would have not seen any RA running in any races after the Woodward (which absolutely wont happen if she were to lose or even win in a less than impressive manner. Lori was saying that RA had the thing wrapped up regardless. I dont think that is true.

When she wins The Woodward HOY is over, Until she wins the Woodward anything could happen with HOY. Even Mine That Bird has an outside shot although he would have to win 2 more races in a huge way. Rachel whipped Summer Bird once she will whip him everytime they run a square race. She is much faster the Summer Bird. As for the rest of the male slugs colts and or horses they stink as well. Maybe Quality Road could beat Rachel in a 1 turn mile but I question that outcome as well. I have a feeling Quality Road is about to have a phathom career ending injury any minute.. He has done enough..

freddymo 09-03-2009 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
The point is why compare Cigar to RA in the 1st place when synthetic tracks were not around back then. Cigar didn't race well on turf, everyone knows the story, I am not suggesting RA race on turf, but as mentioned by another poster RA has won on poly, abeit it was not a significant win...but it was a win, then why the reluctance to race in the BC?
Jackson loved Curlin thinks we was g-ds gift to racing. He watched his all time great lose on Pro Ride so he figures that he can't bear to watch Rachel lose on it. Plus he likes making grand statements and what better a time and place to get his message across..Of course , it is self serving and off color but it is his right to express himself. He ponied up the 6 to 10mil(u hear so many people who KNOW the price) Basically in comes down to this "in his club he can splash the pot whenever the FCUK he wants" (per TEDDY KGB in Rounders).

Antitrust32 09-03-2009 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
The point is why compare Cigar to RA in the 1st place when synthetic tracks were not around back then. Cigar didn't race well on turf, everyone knows the story, I am not suggesting RA race on turf, but as mentioned by another poster RA has won on poly, abeit it was not a significant win...but it was a win, then why the reluctance to race in the BC?

I'm sure they arent scared of running her in the BC.

The answer is really simple. The owner of said horse hates artificial surfaces. He calls them plastic in interviews. He did not want to run his superstar horse on plastic last year, gave in, and probably was not happy with the results. He doesnt want to run her on plastic.

I'd blame Rachel not being in the BC on the Breeders Cup idiots more than Jackson. If the race was at another track like Churchill, Gulfstream, Belmont, Oaklawn, the Fairgrounds, etc... I would be surprised if she DIDNT show up. She's not ducking out of the Breeders Cup.. its extremely obvious he is not afraid of runner her in ANY spot. her owner is taking a stand against plastic.. and I dont blame him.

parsixfarms 09-03-2009 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
When she wins The Woodward HOY is over, Until she wins the Woodward anything could happen with HOY. Even Mine That Bird has an outside shot although he would have to win 2 more races in a huge way. Rachel whipped Summer Bird once she will whip him everytime they run a square race. She is much faster the Summer Bird. As for the rest of the male slugs colts and or horses they stink as well. Maybe Quality Road could beat Rachel in a 1 turn mile but I question that outcome as well. I have a feeling Quality Road is about to have a phathom career ending injury any minute.. He has done enough..
I keep reading how no one could beat Rachel in a "square race"? What is that? If the older males challenge her and the early fractions in the Woodward are fast (say, 46.1, 1:10), would that be an "unfair" race?

By the way, those were the fractions from the Whitney, which were considerably faster than those set in the Preakness, and no one suggested that the 8YO Commentator had been unfairly treated.

SniperSB23 09-03-2009 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
I keep reading how no one could beat Rachel in a "square race"? What is that? If the older males challenge her and the early fractions in the Woodward are fast (say, 46.1, 1:10), would that be an "unfair" race?

By the way, those were the fractions from the Whitney, which were considerably faster than those set in the Preakness, and no one suggested that the 8YO Commentator had been unfairly treated.
If no one has suggested that yet then let me be the first. Lezcano destroyed the only two decent race horses in that races for no explicable reason.


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