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-   -   Borel off Bird for Rachel in Preakness (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29541)

slotdirt 05-07-2009 04:55 PM

You know, I just have to come out and say this:

I heart punctuation.

Split Rock 05-07-2009 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
No it isn't but I am not going to get into the statistics, maybe 1 out of 20 go against the data that shows huge jump up efforts hurt horses, especially YOUNG ones < 4 years of age

Huge efforts? Huge can take on many different definitions. I think it's bs, too...

Antitrust32 05-07-2009 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I'll take your word for it. :rolleyes:


he's very correct... hung out with Marty lots @ the track and @ the golf course and we've chilled in Orlando... he's a great guy..

Its just the meth fumes from the apartment below getting to him.

letswastemoney 05-07-2009 05:58 PM

Are they even asking Borel to stay on RA?? Borel never rides for those connections on other horses does he?

Rupert Pupkin 05-07-2009 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
This could be the single greatest mistake ever made by an owner, running back in 14 days off such a huge effort, even 5 weeks is a bit much. She might romp but this romp might cost her 3-4 starts in the future, unless the plan is no more after her 3 year old year

I'm the most conservative person in the world when it comes to giving horses time between races. I hate running horses back quickly. But in this case, I would definitely run Rachel in the Preakness. She was under a strangle-hold in the Oaks. She wasn't even close to being all out. She could have won by another 5-10 lengths if she was asked. As others have said, that race was like a workout for her.

In addition, the Preakness should be an easy race for her. I don't think there will be a horse in there that can come within 8 lengths of her. I think she will be able to win under a strangle-hold again. I would have no concerns about bringing her back in 15 days in this case.

ninetoone 05-07-2009 06:13 PM

I'll always wonder how many lengths she would have won this year's Derby by....

horseofcourse 05-07-2009 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninetoone
I'll always wonder how many lengths she would have won this year's Derby by....

Perhaps by the same amount as that other noted Fairgrounds slop lover, Friesan Fire.

sdjcom 05-07-2009 06:35 PM

Borel
 
Well they sell the horse out from under him, he has a shot to win triple crown(yes i said a shot not sure thing). MTB people trusted in him and he got another Derby under his belt, A triple Crown Bid and he sells out the Bird people, i'm disappointed he didn't stick by his guns and stay on Bird. The filly is great but it's a matter of principle. Has any jockey in history come off a horse by choice who was alive for TC? Borel will live to regret this no matter how many he wins with RA. Cheap shot by him, but i know it's a business, but TC try means more to me than riding a Super Filly. He may never get another shot @ TC and besides, those two derby rides he won i think he's no better than many other jockeys. Calvin Borel no class and a sell-out imo.

Rupert Pupkin 05-07-2009 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar
Agree. See my avatar, for example.

Injuries happen all the time. It may be tempting to attribute an injury to a training decision, but I don't think that conclusion would bear up under any rigorous scrutiny. IWR was looking great in training leading up to the Derby, according to Mike Welch. The Pamplemousse and Quality Road also missed the Derby due to injuries, as did Midshipman and Vineyard Haven. Did all of those horses race too much?

Was Rachel Alexandra's Oaks run all that much more exerting than a workout?

--Dunbar

In this case, I agree with you. RA's Oaks win wasn't much more than a workout. I don't think she will have any problem coming back in 15 dyas.

But in general, the harder and more often that horses run, the more likely it is that they will get hurt. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. If you had a really good horse and that horse never raced but instead just breezed 6 furlongs in 1:14 every 7 days, there is a good chance that the horse would never get hurt and would stay sound for years. It obviously would not make sense to do that. A horse can't make you any money by not racing. So you obviously need to run your horse, but you want to do evrything you can to keep them sound. If you run them too often, you have no chance of keeping them sound. You don't want to be greedy and kill the golden-goose.

2Hot4TV 05-07-2009 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdjcom
Well they sell the horse out from under him, he has a shot to win triple crown(yes i said a shot not sure thing). MTB people trusted in him and he got another Derby under his belt, A triple Crown Bid and he sells out the Bird people, i'm disappointed he didn't stick by his guns and stay on Bird. The filly is great but it's a matter of principle. Has any jockey in history come off a horse by choice who was alive for TC? Borel will live to regret this no matter how many he wins with RA. Cheap shot by him, but i know it's a business, but TC try means more to me than riding a Super Filly. He may never get another shot @ TC and besides, those two derby rides he won i think he's no better than many other jockeys. Calvin Borel no class and a sell-out imo.

Really , so what is your point.

sdjcom 05-07-2009 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Just curious, say Rachel goes on to win the Preakness. You still think Borel will regret the decision?

not right away,because the money and hoopla around him will keep him on a natural high, but deep inside he know's doing this to people who seeked you out and trusted their plans in you, and to give up a TC bid? If RA wins preakness then so what, she is expected to and no big deal. What happens if she loses and MTD pulls it off, he will never live it down and will be know more for that mistake. A loss trying for TC is better than a win or loss on RA.

sdjcom 05-07-2009 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV
Really , so what is your point.

If you can't see my point he has more to lose giving up aTC bid than riding RA, what happens if MTB pulls it off? Borel will be a laughing stock, if he loses on MTB then people will say he keeps his word and can be counted on, imo it's a matter of principle.

Rupert Pupkin 05-07-2009 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdjcom
Well they sell the horse out from under him, he has a shot to win triple crown(yes i said a shot not sure thing). MTB people trusted in him and he got another Derby under his belt, A triple Crown Bid and he sells out the Bird people, i'm disappointed he didn't stick by his guns and stay on Bird. The filly is great but it's a matter of principle. Has any jockey in history come off a horse by choice who was alive for TC? Borel will live to regret this no matter how many he wins with RA. Cheap shot by him, but i know it's a business, but TC try means more to me than riding a Super Filly. He may never get another shot @ TC and besides, those two derby rides he won i think he's no better than many other jockeys. Calvin Borel no class and a sell-out imo.

I could make the exact opposite argument. He's been riding the filly all along. He's been on her for the past 6 months. He's ridden her 5 times. He picked up the mount on MTB at the last minute and he's ridden him only once. Why would CB have more loyalty to MTB than RA? RA has been his mount for 6 months. He should stick with RA.

gales0678 05-07-2009 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
A loss trying for the triple crown on an animal he feels is inferior is better than a win in the same race? Isn't the goal to win the race? Rachel winning the Preakness would be no big deal? How many fillies have won the race?

Jockeys riding different horses happens everyday. You act like he's been on Mine That Bird since a 2 year old. he rode him one race. This is a business plain and simple. Maybe riding for Rachel for Asmussen gets him more mounts in the future for Asmussen. Should Casey Lambert be upset the connections of Mine That Bird chose Borel over him in the Derby?

da hoss when was the last time the derby winner didn't have his winning jock on him in the preakness?

King Glorious 05-07-2009 06:59 PM

How about if Mine that Bird wins the Preakness and Rachel doesn't run back in the Belmont. Would you consider riding Borel back in the Belmont or stick with the winning Preakness rider? Or try to really make a footnote in history and be the first TC winner with three different riders lol?

King Glorious 05-07-2009 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gales0678
da hoss when was the last time the derby winner didn't have his winning jock on him in the preakness?

I read it was 1945 and Hoop Jr.

gales0678 05-07-2009 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
How about if Mine that Bird wins the Preakness and Rachel doesn't run back in the Belmont. Would you consider riding Borel back in the Belmont or stick with the winning Preakness rider? Or try to really make a footnote in history and be the first TC winner with three different riders lol?

yeah why not go borel/pino/saymn - then MTB would have to go down as one of the best ever:D :D


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