Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

We know ya don't get it. On this, you're simply unteachable. He blew away Hillary n' McCain with one of the best organized campaigns ever. People worked very hard for him. Now, somehow, in that brain of Gales, this is not registering as leadership. Hey, I underestimated his ability to get people to follow him(Gales, people follow leaders.) Somehow, he got more votes in Indiana(Bush won there by like 15 n' 20%.) That cost me 2k(in winnings...only $50 in money bet.) Gales, three hours after I made the bet, guess what happened. Seems Mr. Obama (who you say can't lead) somehow got Mr. Colin Powell to disagree with you on that. Guess what. Scuds boat was sunk in Indiana on that day. BTW, your only shot at beating OBAMA in 2012 is by somehow convincing this other guy(POWELL) to run. It's about those independent voters, and you're not gunna get them with a Bush, a Newt, or a Holy Roller Hockey Mom. Keep talking about what experience they've had running stuff. It doesn't matter. They will not vote for them. The rich Mormon that talks down to people? They ain't gunna vote for him. Look at who ya just tried to win with. You tried to win with an opposition leader. Other than Powell, that's pretty much all you've got(opposition leaders.) What is Jeb Bush? He's pretty much Bob Dole without the pencil in his hand. You keep ridin' that puppy. See where it gets ya.

Originally Posted by gales0678

tell me why if Jeb goes he ain't going to win florida , he's is , if things ain't better 4 yrs from now and we ain't moving forward ,gpk will tell you NC and VA will go back to the Republican side. As for Ohio and Indiana - these 2 states will go the way of the economy , he ain't winning those on message , people will have to be working porductivly for him to win there , no redo the numbers and all of a sudden it don't look like a landslide

don't forget scuds , this race was a tired old 72 yr man vs a young vibrant 47 yr old , he won't have the luxury of running against a guy that doesn't want the job next time- we shall see

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yea, o.k. Clinton, Reagan, and G.W. all held serve, but you're gunna kick out OBA in just 4 years. You're not in touch with reality. Trust me, Carter and the older Bush ran into much better leaders (naturals for the job.) The guy you're talking about is in the Mondale, Dole, Kerry category.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Bush barely got back into office for a second term. You can credit spin and a lack of a viable democratic opponent.

People arent going to simply vote Obama out. He is too charismatic. If he is going to lose, someone will have to beat him. There certainly isnt anyone around right now that could fit the bill. Of course, we do have three years.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

He's would have to lose his health. Gales, he could get shot. I'm surprised some white trash hasn't at least wounded him yet.

Originally Posted by gales0678

i dis-agree , if his policies don't make the cut , he's out

Originally Posted by pgardn

He will be booted if a jiffy if the economy does not recover.
The people will simple vote anyone out, including God if the economy is not in order. The cascading effect a bad economy has with crime, jobs, etc... will lead to the conclusion he is too soft on crime, his health care ruined the opportunity for new jobs... anything and everything can be blamed on a bad economy.

Originally Posted by gales0678

scuds - you know you see these 4/5 shots lose every day

http://linesmaker.com/live_odds/us_p...ction_odds.htm

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well, gee, if the economy is bad, what to do? What to do? HMMM...Start giving somebody an a-s-s kickin' somewhere in the world. Seems to work pretty well. 1.It's not like he came in with a nice economy. 2.He'll resign if he thinks he failed, or can't do it. If he's in an election, he's gunna win it. The only one with a chance to beat him is Powell(he won't run.)

Originally Posted by pgardn

1.Which is why he won.
The war and numerous cases of lack of oversight in so many sectors did it.

2. That is a possibility but it still concludes in no second term.

We discussed the economy's role when you were still worried Obama might not win. Bush was a hero after 9/11. He was still good enough to win a next term even with a war going bad because the economy had not tanked.

We started the ass kickin before the economy really turned south.

Originally Posted by pgardn

1.Which is why he won.
The war and numerous cases of lack of oversight in so many sectors did it.
2. That is a possibility but it still concludes in no second term.

We discussed the economy's role when you were still worried Obama might not win. Bush was a hero after 9/11. He was still good enough to win a next term even with a war going bad because the economy had not tanked.

We started the ass kickin before the economy really turned south.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

It is impossible to say for sure what did it and it is more than a little bit of a stretch to say definitively that Obama needed those factors in order to win. It is imminently possible that Obama wins regardless of what was happening with the economy or the war for that matter.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The iraq war was preceeded by a recession.

Originally Posted by pgardn

They did not know what to call it at the time.
I still have yet to hear a definition that everyone agrees on.
But it was clearly not the out and out crisis
we had before the election. Not even close.

Originally Posted by Riot

For me it was simply because Obama was obviously intelligent. I couldn't do eight more years of dumb, aggressive, simple-minded, close-minded, non-reality based/non-scientific orientation based presidenting. The world is too complex and too scary.

And after hearing John McCain (who I LOVED and was eager to vote for, but that faded fast as the campaign trail advanced) in the last day say Obama should be more aggressive on rhetoric towards Iran's current "let's hope it's a revolution", I'm darn, DARN happy I didn't vote McCain, holy crap.

I worried alot about the experience, but knew he'd surround himself with those who knew, as he had repeatedly demonstrated his ego isn't too big to learn from others.

I really wish that alot of the Obama-haters, instead of listening to media interpretations and small soundbites (I don't care, right or left, doesn't matter), would look at the entire interview and judge for themselves.

For example, today I got a chance to watch the entire MSNBC interview (the one where Obama swatted the fly).

How can anybody say this man needs a teleprompter :p , or that he's not thought far ahead on the complexities of the bank bailouts, the car companies, the economy? Good lord, he's impressive!

Originally Posted by Riot

You obviously know my numbers are wrong, so you must have different ones, so post yours.

Originally Posted by Riot

The economy stopped spiraling the first quarter of this year. Jobless numbers were released today, they are down for the first time in ages.

It could go back the other way, certainly, it's still dicey and there's alot yet to get through, but alot of our economic strength does depend on confidence in the way things are being directed.

Originally Posted by gales0678

we'll revisit this in 4 yrs , but, if barack doesn't get us out of the toilet bowl and plunges us further down , bush will be live in '12

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You seriously overestimate the supidity of republicans. Contrary to what you see on this forum, many republicans can be rather bright.

Originally Posted by Riot

Mine, too. You have better statistics.

Originally Posted by pgardn

I really have to believe the Republicans dont
have to have much in the way of a candicdate
if the economy, after all of the fairly significant shifts Obama is trying,
does not recover or gets worse.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No misuse of stats is a habit of yours

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is an amazing post. I just don't know where to begin.

You watched an MSNBC interview (infomercial) and concluded that he doesnt need a telepromptor (though he uses one more extensively than any president in history, even those stupid ones), that he has "thought far ahead" on the economic issues and "complexities", and that he is generally impressive?

And you want to debate serious issues?

Originally Posted by Riot

LOL - are you for real?

Most people who are "debating issues" get around to discussing the issues, rather than confining themselves to insulting anyone who disagrees with them.

So if you just don't know where to begin, you might try to discuss the subject at hand, rather than repeatedly proving Bill Maher is right about Republicans.

Originally Posted by Riot

How would you know, you don't bother with stats.

Originally Posted by gales0678

chuck - bush will win florida in '12 - he is lock city there , take back nc and va , the focus then moves to ohio , mich and indiaian - those 3 states and Penn. will all be up for grabs

you know the bushes are going to go for it , they have the $$$ people in the party behind them and daddy wants them to get a mulligan - it could happen very eaisly

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

GALES!!! BUSH will NOT be on the ticket in 2012.

No way no how. As Chuck and Booth Operator said, Vernon Bush and Reggie Bush... even Busch Light have better chances of being on the ticket.

Not gonna happen.

Originally Posted by gales0678

alright - i'll put it to bed until '12 and we shall see

if he ain't on the ticket i'll fly you up from Ocala for a day at Belmont , then a yankee game at night , golf the next am at Deepdale and put you on the afternoon flight back to Orlando

Originally Posted by GBBob

Make it a charter with a lot of seats Marty!

Originally Posted by gales0678

alright - i'll put it to bed until '12 and we shall see

if he ain't on the ticket i'll fly you up from Ocala for a day at Belmont , then a yankee game at night , golf the next am at Deepdale and put you on the afternoon flight back to Orlando

Originally Posted by GBBob

Make it a charter with a lot of seats Marty!

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

its a deal. :D

If Job IS on the ticket... I'll put ya on the greyhound to Ocala :p , where we dont have a race track or a pro sports team. But we can make a bet at the OTB, maybe go see a horse thats eating grass in a field, but good golf is something we do have!
And I'll get ya a bus ticket back to the City after we play 18 and drink 2-1's at Barbazons.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Perhaps if you focused more on the issues as opposed to the rhetoric ....