not quite sure where you're going with the above.


which is more detrimental to our ecological system, to our conservation attempts?
-hunters and fisherman, who fund most of the above, or

- ban hunting and fishing-and lose 9/10ths of the funding, and lose most of those who take the lead on protecting our habitats, fisheries, and wetlands?

unless you have a better plan--other than to compare hunters to charitable serial killers--btw, serial killing IS illegal. hunting isn't.

Legality does not equate to morally right...the analogy is accurate if you believe that hunting for sport is morally wrong (as I and others do). The burden does not fall on me to come up with another source of funding to replace killing animals, this is not a discussion about economics but about morality. You can take the position that hunting is morally Ok, but using economics to support a moral position doesn't work. If, as I believe, killing animals for sport is morally wrong, then all the money in the world doesn't change that!

it's not just economics somer. herd health, well being...

but i would love to hear a solution if you have one.

another question just occurred to me.

so, all the good a hunter does-all those good morals he exhibits by retrieving and replacing lost wetlands, replanting trees, replacing habitat, retrieving species from extinction that he didn't force to the brink--that doesn't outweigh whatever morals you feel he doesn't have because he hunts? seems to me that maybe a hunter represents a dichotomy. saving, restoring, growing, improving-he takes back a small part of the larger whole he created, doesn't he?

i've stayed out of this because I have very mixed feelings on hunting...on the one hand i understand the history and the necessity that gave rise to hunting...on the other I refuse to look at killing as a sport...
but Danzig is absolutely right about it being important to herd health...lets face it we have removed all of the big predators save one...man...and for that reason hunting becomes an actual necessity IMO...

but that doesn't excuse, in my opinion, the irresponsible and immoral hunters like the @sshole who poached a deer off my farm this fall...we have a large coyote pack to keep our herd in check...we don't need guys like that who can't read the posted and no tresspassing signs.

Again, you are saying that the ends justify the means...I disagree. First, there have to be better solutions to overpopulation than killing and secondly, you just can't get past the free will issue...if I kill a deer, that's my responsibility...if it's wrong then all the excuses ie: it's the humane thing, I donate money to conservation, someone else will do it if I don't etc etc simply doesn't cut it! Again, my point...my only point is that killing for sport is morally wrong; we can debate that, the morality of that, but you can't bring economics or for that matter other issues into the debate and stay on point. Evil cannot be justified by pointing out good that may result, I believe hunting for sport is immoral therefore evil...we can debate that but please, enough with the smoke screens!

i have no use for those who refuse to follow game laws. it puts the rest of us in a bad light. i will not hunt with and refuse to associate with anyone who doesn't follow the rules. i hope you called your game and fish!

deer in many areas are considered a nuisance. some places have even had to call in sharpshooters because deer populations have gotten so out of control. deer are incredibly adaptable animals. they can live in a very small space, and can be very, very dangerous. especially a rutting buck, who can severely injure or kill a man. birth control has been attempted, but with limited success, and at a very high price.

also, i wonder if people realize how many hungry people are fed every year by hunters who donate the meat-after they clean and dress the animal of course. i don't know, i just think if you eat meat, you really can't argue about hunting.....

Again, I don't debate herd health etc, I simply refuse to allow pro-sport hunting arguments that try and channel the debate about the morality of such hunting into other topics to go unchallenged.

well, i don't feel it's wrong, morally or otherwise to hunt. i can't discuss hunting for sport, as i don't do it and wouldn't be able to say what the motivation would be.

another good point...since there is a program here that encourages hunters to donate extra meat to the local food shelf and many of them do. I actually haven't eaten red meat since I was a kid and only eat chicken/turkey/duck on rare occasions (and then from local farms whenever possible)...and I while I never liked seafood much I gave it up entirely after working in a fish market...

I did call the game warden and we are on the list for a decoy next fall...should be fun:D

"also, i wonder if people realize how many hungry people are fed every year by hunters who donate the meat-after they clean and dress the animal of course. i don't know, i just think if you eat meat, you really can't argue about hunting"

Again...same thing! So if serial killers donated the bodies of their victims to feed the hungry, that would make what they do morally correct?

oh, i love when they set up decoys roadside and wait for some idiot to come along. it's hilarious! it only gets better when they shoot, decoy remains in the same spot, and they try again. huh! deer just standing there. lemme try agin. then they try to wiggle out by yelling entrapment. yeah, leave the legal issues to the lawyers there homer.

oh jesus somer. gimme a break. just call me jeffrey dahmer and be done with it then.

Oh I'll go one better for you...last fall a guy drove his car into a field and plowed into the decoy (around here you get first dibs on your roadkill)...

a very expensive mistake since he got a bunch of fines and had to pay for the decoy he destroyed...I guess they cost a couple grand:D

LMAO

oh man, you need to set up a recorder when they set it up this fall...what a moron.

not funny tho to hit a deer-$5k damages to a brand new mustang a few years ago. joker came out of nowhere. he had bad morals i guess, as he was jaywalking.:D

Well, I think you said that you don't hunt for sport so why would you think my argument applies to you? I'm talking about sport hunting, I've already said that I have no problem with a person who hunts for food necessary to feed his/her family.

The only animal I truly dislike is the Canadian Goose. Sport hunting, feeding your family, whatever...they must go. They ruin every field, I've seen them try to bite kids and they are just generally a major problem. Back to Canada you go. Is there another animal that has a country in its name and yet is never in that country? I don't know of one.

lol
because you keep bringing up serial killers--and i think it's a good idea to donate to charity, and you equated that to making poor hungry people into cannibals!

so, what is your idea on conservation? to give people a sense of ownership, and stewardship, or just tax the snot out of them?

This has been an interesting thread.
I've stayed out for a while, as it seems that comparing all hunters to three deranged children shooting horses reall makes all hunters bad people.
Quite the comparison.
Yes, Danzig, you are right on all counts.
Sometimes bringing truth to prejudice just ain't gonna turn that mentality around, sad to say.
Yes, I hunt and I fish.
Yes, I eat what I take. I don't shoot coyotes, foxes, bobcats...or anything else that I don't intend to prepare in my kitchen in the best way possible.
Yes, I also plant a garden.
I throw back fish if they're undersized (though the PETA folks tried to outlaw fishing in the past, as it hurt the little fish's lips)...OH MY!!
Comparing responsible hunters and fishermen (women) with three yahoos in a pickup shooting grazing horses is just a lot of manure.
On a side note, I went bowling a week ago. A lady that had been drinking far too much picked up her bowling ball, walked back to slug down another sip before she tossed it down the lane, but dropped it on one of her team mate's feet....a broken toe.
I'm tellin' ya!!!! BOWLING SHOULD BE OUTLAWED!!!!!!!!!

don't know about critters..but apparently some people don't keep cuban cigars in a humidor...

oh, but that is off topic.

you know, some folks move to the country and admire the pretty wildlife--and then the deer eat the roses and strip the azaleas clean, and the squirrels eat all the electric wiring and start a fire. oh, then call the gamekeepers!