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-   -   Sheikh Mo and Bernardini (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5622)

Cannon Shell 10-13-2006 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
You forgot about the part that many of the backstretch help are either visa overstays or who snuck into the country without regard for our immigration laws.
Or the part about them making 10 times what they were making in their "cultured" countries.

Cannon Shell 10-13-2006 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
It is simple. I'm a fan of horse racing, not a fan of horse breeding. I couldn't care less about his offspring running in ten years. We have a potentially great horse and will only get to see him run for one frickin year. This is why the sport is so hard to market.
Well said!

Cannon Shell 10-13-2006 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I have some land to sell you too. Where did you hear this anyway? I doubt they are going to comment on the track. With Henny Hughes and Bernardini running, both track records are in trouble. I can assure you some people in the KY breeding business would love to see Bernardini take down that track record.
Two track records!!! And who in the KY breeding business will be happy to see that except the people at Darley?

blackthroatedwind 10-13-2006 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Two track records!!! And who in the KY breeding business will be happy to see that except the people at Darley?
Don't forget our founding fathers.

Cannon Shell 10-13-2006 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
Breeding makes the business go around. Do some research and see how much money and jobs are tied to the breeding business. People gamble on horses, football, casinos, etc. Horses are unique though because there is a multi billion dollar business in breeding.

The tax revenues for the sales of horses are huge. The revenues from gambling are often nothing. Some groups are non-profits and contribute nothing. In fact, some of these non-profits cost the tax payer money.
This may be the most ill-informed post yet! (I'd say stupid but I dont want an $11 million dollar lawsuit) Breeding only exists because of racing, not vice versa. You are comparing tax revenues from the sale of horses to the gambling industry??? The revenues from gambling are often nothing??? Do you think that non profits like Del Mar and Keeneland just keep all the money? I can hardly type.....

Cannon Shell 10-13-2006 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
Track records don't. Two track records though do. The 10f at Churchill and the 12f and Belmont. You take down Secretariat's record in either and it is a marketers dream. Bernardini is likely to be $250K with a win. Taking down Secretariat's track record though could get them $300K. Not bad for a freshman. Being an AP Indy/Cara Rafaela doesn't hurt though. The best racehorse in decades combined with the best breeding out there is going to fill his book at any cost.
Who are you marketing to? There is a very select number of people that play in that area code and one of them(coolmore) aint buying.

PostCritic 10-13-2006 08:39 PM
A.P. Indy Retires At the Age of 3
 
A.P. Indy Retires At the Age of 3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A964958260

I just wonder, did anyone complain as much when AP Indy retired?

Coach Pants 10-13-2006 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostCritic
A.P. Indy Retires At the Age of 3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A964958260

I just wonder, did anyone complain as much when AP Indy retired?
Of course.

Bold Brooklynite 10-13-2006 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I am sure you know much more about me than that side of the business. :)

The game is about risk management in the first two years. Bernardini with is pedigree, conformation, and race record makes him what people in the business term a can't miss. Perhaps more importantly, a horse with the perfect pedigree, conformation and race record attracts the best mares.

If you could, please give me the name of a horse with Bernardini's pedigree, conformation, and race record that was a failure. I would love for you to find me one. Heck, I would love for you to find me one that has ever existed.
Citation ... Coaltown ... Hill Prince ... Iron Liege ... Tim Tam ... Nadir ... Sword Dancer ... Bald Eagle ... Crimson Satan ... Jaipur ... Ridan ... Never Bend ... Bold Lad ... Successor ... Dr. Fager ... Vitriolic ... Arts And Letters ... Personality ... Riva Ridge ... Ack Ack ... Sham ... Wajima ... Bold Forbes ... Youth ... Affirmed ... Spectacular Bid ... Lord Avie ... Temperence Hill ... Conquistador Cielo ... Devil's Bag ... Chief's Crown ... Spend A Buck ... Vanlandingham ... Turkoman ... Smile ... Alysheba ... Ferdinand ... Groovy ... Easy Goer ... Risen Star ... Rhythm ... Blushing John ... Steinlen ...Fly So Free ... Criminal Type ... Housebuster ... Arazi ... Hansel ... Black Tie Affair ... Gilded Time ... Pleasant Tap ... Rubiano ... Dehere ... Bertrando ... Timber Country ... Holy Bull ... Cigar ... Skip Away ... Lit De Justice ... Favorite Trick ... Silver Charm ... Free House ... Answer Lively ... Real Quiet ... Victory Gallop ... Artax ...

Would you like a few more, "Georgie"?

todko 10-13-2006 10:17 PM
Let them retire this horse. Who cares? It's their horse -- and if they want to send him to stud so be it.

Ask yourself the question . . . right now . . . how much money are you going to make by betting on Bernardini? At 1-9?

Racing survived long before Bernardini. And it will survive long after Bernardini.

Some of you sound like a love stricken high school cheeleader. Maybe you have a picture of Bernardini inside your locker or something. Grow up.

Frankly, I think he's a big hype job anyway.

repent 10-14-2006 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32
They should make a Kentucky derby and Triple Crown part II for 4yo's to keep the good ones around!

they do.

Its called the Whitney, Woodward, and Jockey Club Gold Cup.

if winning a Grade 1 at Saratoga or at the Fall Championship meet is not enough for an owner to keep a horse in training as a 4YO, no race will.

on the west coast, theres the the triple that Lava Man accomplished this year.



Repent

repent 10-14-2006 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostCritic
A.P. Indy Retires At the Age of 3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A964958260

I just wonder, did anyone complain as much when AP Indy retired?
well,
Ap Indy had his soundness issues from what I remember(I was kind of young).
Im not aware of any health problems Bern has had.

Repent

Betsy 10-14-2006 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by repent
well,
Ap Indy had his soundness issues from what I remember(I was kind of young).
Im not aware of any health problems Bern has had.

Repent
The only problems Indy had were the quarter crack issue that kept him from running in the Derby. Once that was patched up and taken care of, he didn't have any problems thereafter. I was very annoyed, though not surprised, about his retirement - I was just glad he was staying in the US. As his owner was Japanese, I thought maybe he'd be sent to stud there.

There is no excuse for Bernardini's retirement - the horse is as sound as a dollar and has so much to give on the racetrack. There are no words in the English language to describe how I feel about what the Sheikh is doing.

Pedigree Ann 10-14-2006 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I would say this might be the knockout punch. Good work BB.
As posted elsewhere, I find this list totally absurd. Many of the horses listed have been successful sires, while others had physical handicaps to sire success (low or non-existent fertility) and yet others are too young to make any judgement about. Many of them were not as fashionably bred as Bernardini and were not expected to become top level sires as a consequence. I am astonished that you accept Mr. BB's statement so uncritically.

georgewashington 10-14-2006 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
As I have stated in another post as well. I do not completely agree with everything BB put in the post. Yeah his list was overdone, as usual, because he was trying to make a point. But as a whole I think the post served it's purpose, which was to show, race record, and promise in the shed does not equal success. Look it's not a personal thing, I have had many a run in with BB, but I do agree with the premise of what he is saying. Not trying to astonish you, but I happen to think it's a little premature to call a horse can't miss at stud. I'm about as big a Bernardini fan as there is, but as you know, probably better than anyone on here, sometimes it just doesn't work, for various reasons.

Let's see, a person in the industry, and Pedigree Ann's opinion (who in my opinion really knows her stuff) against Bold Brooklynite and DaHoss.

That is a tough one.

You being the expert DaHoss, please tell me which horse on that list has the pedigree, race record, and conformation of Bernardini? Not to mention, about 1/2 of those horses did quite well in the shed.

Do you know what risk management means?

somerfrost 10-14-2006 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann
As posted elsewhere, I find this list totally absurd. Many of the horses listed have been successful sires, while others had physical handicaps to sire success (low or non-existent fertility) and yet others are too young to make any judgement about. Many of them were not as fashionably bred as Bernardini and were not expected to become top level sires as a consequence. I am astonished that you accept Mr. BB's statement so uncritically.
Nobody can see the future, Risen Star for example was poorly managed (on and off the track) and died way early...but who is to say what the future holds for Bernardini? I have a problem with a few on his list but most certainly did not meet expectations...Ack Ack is one that I think did fine, CDR and the sire of my all time favorite horse/stallion Broad Brush...there are those who call Secretariat a "failure" at stud because the expectations were that he would reproduce himself (well...duh!), with Star and the Iron Lady to his credit, a huge influence on the mare side and solid CDR credentials, I think he was successful...it's how does one define "success"? The thing is that with his breeding and track success, Bernardini will have every opportunity to succeed, he will immediately be booked to the best mares and the Godolphin crowd will make every effort to convert him to their foundation dirt sire...but memories of Dubai Millenium do linger...bottom line: I like his chances but I wouldn't bet the ranch!

georgewashington 10-14-2006 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Two track records!!! And who in the KY breeding business will be happy to see that except the people at Darley?
Yes, Darley owns all the mares he will breed with and stallions fees going up only helps Darley. There are no pinhookers in the business and there the people like Fasig Tipton do their job for free. Sales prices going up help nobody but Darley. If Bernardini gets $300K do you think AP Indy is going to not go up?


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