Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 952866)

Like I said, we can always find reasons not to do things. I do see your side of things, even when I debate it. Trainers and jockeys "might forget" or "don't speak English" doesn't cut it for me. Pretty sure I could learn to say "Don't use the whip" in Spanish if I needed to do so in about a minute. Other's mileage may vary. I guess the military did that to me, tough to change after all those years.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 952867)

Use of the whip is strategy.

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 952848)

What in the world happened to Sweet Reason?

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 952871)

This is where we disagree. No point going on, I've said all I really have to say on the matter. I'm going to side with helping bettors 100% of the time over making things easier on horsemen every time, because I'm a bettor. Every time I counter something you say, you change the issue. Doesn't speak English. Give me a break.

Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 952872)

It didn't rain. Duh

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 952875)

Didn't she run an 86 on a fast track after a poor break last time?

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 952871)

This is where we disagree. No point going on, I've said all I really have to say on the matter. I'm going to side with helping bettors 100% of the time over making things easier on horsemen every time, because I'm a bettor. Every time I counter something you say, you change the issue. Doesn't speak English. Give me a break.

Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 952877)

The breed is a disaster that can't run without lasix. Therefore, the garbage times for the juveniles.

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 952879)

That is a bit different from "it didn't rain", isn't it?

Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 952877)

The breed is a disaster that can't run without lasix. Therefore, the garbage times for the juveniles.

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick (Post 952878)

Here's a hypothetical scenario. Pletcher discloses Havana won't be whipped. You decide not to play him because of this and during the stretch Stevens decides that maybe the horse will respond favorably to the whip and decides to whip Havana and Havana actually comes back and wins.

Then we'd be back to square one.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 952881)

Funny we are told the breed is too tilted towards speed and yet with Lasix the Sprint time was "garbage"

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 952886)

He then gets fined and suspended I guess. At least I know somebody is watching. There has to be a line somewhere to help bettors, so I'm going to argue for every inch and hope it gets better for us.

I said a while back I know there are a lot more important things to worry about. The stuff you mention is certainly up there. But that would probably inconvenience somebody, or the vet might only speak Mandarin and accidentally confuse "gelded" for "displaced palate", and we can't have that.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 952895)

Do bettors really care if a jockey gets fined or suspended?

Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 952889)

Real testing this year. Go figure. 2 yr old filly would've hit the board in the Turf Sprint. All the numbers were down.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 952764)

With all due respect, this is nonsense. A domestic rider may have gotten him to change leads, but Joseph O'Brien rode a PERFECT race. Not only did he have Declaration of War in an ideal position from the start, he successfully avoided running into traffic as the horses immediately in front of him quit. He kept on grinding down the stretch and came up short. It was unfortunate that he wouldn't change leads because it very well may have been the difference, but it wasn't like the jock wasn't trying to get him to switch.

On top of that, American jockeys have never been worse than right now. It's comical how bad our "good" jockeys like Rosario, Castellano and Bejarano are on the big stage.

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 952892)

Stevens always had the whip put away on Havana. I had people around me trying to tell me "he just didn't see the inside horse coming" -- that's crazy, he's not a 10lbs bug. It was pretty obvious it had to be riding to instructions.

At least with Mucho Macho Man, he pulled the whip out, showed the horse the whip, and used the whip on him in the final furlong without ever slashing into him real hard.

Again, I don't care about the fact that Havana was given a lazy hand ride through the stretch & hit a complete brick wall in the last 1/16th. I think the whip is kind of overrated.

I just get a little sick with trainers and jockeys being cute and imposing their will when they don't have to.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 952897)

Real testing as opposed to fake testing?