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-   -   Travers Buzz: Quality Road a yes.. (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31068)

freddymo 08-30-2009 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
Yeah, that makes no sense to me save the "start over the track" ideology. I think Quality Road should point towards the Cigar Mile.

I agree a win in such a race is a nice way to head to the shed.

Danzig 08-30-2009 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
He wasn't avoiding her under less than favorable condtions in the Haskell and he was ready to take her on in the Travers, he's willing to take her on, if Jess Jackson and Ass-man agree I'm sure they will meet.
summer bird has shown ability to run over a sloppy surface, so you'd have to take the haskell defeat for what it was-a loss to a better horse. there's really no need for them to face off again.

as for rachel, i'd love to see them try turf after the woodward. if she showed ability over that, they could still take her to the bc over the lawn. to hell with polycrap.

yeah, that won't happen.

Danzig 08-30-2009 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
The colt has not exactly been the soundest colt on the planet. They get hurt training, shipping and every other way imagineable. The colt raced fine. He is certainly talented and has a fine trainer that could get to his ultimate potential evidentually if he stayed sound..The big issue is the clock, Is there any shot he isn't servicing mares Feb 1 10 instead of at Paysons Park still in training getting ready for the Donn? If so, we will be lucky that Evans kept what could be a real fine colt in training. More likely, it will be 100 mares at 25k a pop.

depends on demand. he may have not done enough to warrant much attention. in times like these, people tilt heavily towards established sires, rather than new and unknown.

freddymo 08-30-2009 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
depends on demand. he may have not done enough to warrant much attention. in times like these, people tilt heavily towards established sires, rather than new and unknown.

Plenty of demand for a multiple Graded winner. The Fountain of Youth, Florida Derby, Amsterdam, and potential Cigar Mile would be plenty, not to mention a 3rd in the Travers to get a nice book. He won early he won early fast and he is from a very nice family from an already commericially accepted stallion.. In other words with a Cigar win he would have done enough.. lol

CSC 08-30-2009 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
there's really no need for them to face off again.

yeah, that won't happen.
The only way it will happen the way I see it is they meet in TJGC at Belmont, they should meet again after she disposes the mediocrities in the Woodward and why shouldn't she? If she is the best horse in training right now you finish your career on a high and face the best at the classic 1 1/4 distance. Why protect her if she is supposedly 10 lengths better than the next best horse unless you have worries about the result.

CSC 08-30-2009 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Her Preakness win is clearly her most impressive race. 2 week lay off, never raced against colts, comes off a monster G1 effort, Gets pressured every single step of the way, racing for a new trainer. You see Rachel did what Quality Road, a very very nice colt couldn't. Quality Road did what 99% of horses that aren't conditioned for, yielded to the many obstacles that faced him. I think that doesn't mitigate him as a potential terrific colt BUT when a filly overcomes pace, conditioning(remember Ole Hal Wiggins was never interested in ant TC races) and first time colts it suggests that she is well beyond just a super talented sort like QR. Now go forward off that race and look at the progression that she has made and you HAVE to recognize that she is just way better then Summer Bird.
Summer Bird is a much better horse at this stage than Mine That Bird was during the Preakness and all signs point to him getting better. The gap is closing between him and RA, if one can look past that made for RA Haskell. All we need is a fair race at 1 1/4 this fall at Belmont to illustrate this point.

freddymo 08-30-2009 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
The only way it will happen the way I see it is they meet in TJGC at Belmont, they should meet again after she disposes the mediocrities in the Woodward and why shouldn't she? If she is the best horse in training right now you finish your career on a high and face the best at the classic 1 1/4 distance. Why protect her if she is supposedly 10 lengths better than the next best horse unless you have worries about the result.
So you want Rachel to crush in the Beldame and then 4 weeks later try the the JCGC instead of which race? I would prefer to go in the Cigar mile to exhibit her speed. BTW she is at least 8 to 10 lengths better then anything that has run this year at 9f's

freddymo 08-30-2009 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Summer Bird is a much better horse at this stage than Mine That Bird was during the Preakness and all signs point to him getting better. The gap is closing between him and RA, if one can look past that made for RA Haskell. All we need is a fair race at 1 1/4 this fall at Belmont to illustrate this point.

I doubt Tim Ice is in accord with your thoughts. He is very aware what he is facing and he isn't going to risk what you think. It's a multi million dollar gamble.. Right now he is a made colt, get crushed by RA and he does nothing but F with the colts stallion value. Let it go!

CSC 08-30-2009 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
So you want Rachel to crush in the Beldame and then 4 weeks later try the the JCGC instead of which race? I would prefer to go in the Cigar mile to exhibit her speed. BTW she is at least 8 to 10 lengths better then anything that has run this year at 9f's
I don't understand the appeal of the Beldame if she wins the Woodward as expected, why would she go the Zenyatta route now? The only logical race is the JCGC if we are to believe Jess Jackson, he is running her in spots for her 'legacy'. What type of legacy does the Beldame offer that the JCGC doesn't offer more appeal in spades?

CSC 08-30-2009 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
I doubt Tim Ice is in accord with your thoughts. He is very aware what he is facing and he isn't going to risk what you think. It's a multi million dollar gamble.. Right now he is a made colt, get crushed by RA and he does nothing but F with the colts stallion value. Let it go!
Smart Strike was crushed by Cigar in his last race, that had little effect on his stud value as it stands today. Maybe you and I are different, I'm concerned about racing where it seems you are in breeding.

letswastemoney 08-30-2009 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
I don't understand the appeal of the Beldame if she wins the Woodward as expected, why would she go the Zenyatta route now? The only logical race is the JCGC if we are to believe Jess Jackson, he is running her in spots for her 'legacy'. What type of legacy does the Beldame offer that the JCGC doesn't offer more appeal in spades?
He's going to be remembered as chicken, if by some chance the Zenyatta camp agrees to go to the Beldame.

CSC 08-30-2009 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by letswastemoney
He's going to be remembered as chicken, if by some chance the Zenyatta camp agrees to go to the Beldame.
That's a big IF...

freddymo 08-30-2009 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
I don't understand the appeal of the Beldame if she wins the Woodward as expected, why would she go the Zenyatta route now? The only logical race is the JCGC if we are to believe Jess Jackson, he is running her in spots for her 'legacy'. What type of legacy does the Beldame offer that the JCGC doesn't offer more appeal in spades?
Can the filly crush in the Woodward first before you worry about the Beldame. Your post assumes the Woodward is a for gone conclusion. assuming you are right isn't the Beldame a logical race for RA especially with the lure of Zenyatta?

CSC 08-30-2009 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Can the filly crush in the Woodward first before you worry about the Beldame. Your post assumes the Woodward is a for gone conclusion. assuming you are right isn't the Beldame a logical race for RA especially with the lure of Zenyatta?
Is it too much to wish the purse of the JCGC was the one that was increased and not the Beldame? The BC Classic would be somewhat anti-climatic if these 3 plus QR and maybe MTB could meet in a race at Belmont, frankly I am sceptical of any of them meeting but hopefully I am wrong and they do find a way to make it so.

Danzig 08-30-2009 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
The only way it will happen the way I see it is they meet in TJGC at Belmont, they should meet again after she disposes the mediocrities in the Woodward and why shouldn't she? If she is the best horse in training right now you finish your career on a high and face the best at the classic 1 1/4 distance. Why protect her if she is supposedly 10 lengths better than the next best horse unless you have worries about the result.

my 'won't happen' remark was in regards to turf. as for meeting summer bird again, for what? and i don't know why anyone would say anything about 'protecting' her. her campaign this year has been anything but protective or ordinary. and i doubt anyone in her camp is worried, she's dispatched everything she's faced this year with ease, including what is arguably the years best 3 yo colt.

CSC 08-30-2009 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
my 'won't happen' remark was in regards to turf. as for meeting summer bird again, for what? and i don't know why anyone would say anything about 'protecting' her. her campaign this year has been anything but protective or ordinary. and i doubt anyone in her camp is worried, she's dispatched everything she's faced this year with ease, including what is arguably the years best 3 yo colt.
The gap between the 2 has closed, unless one subscribes to the theory that yesterday's Travers was weak, also you can't believe Summer Bird had a realistic chance at Monmouth on that track at less than the classic distance and the way the race played out by Kent D engaging Munnings early on while Rachel watched? All things considered he did well to hold 2nd in that race.

Regardless the racing season does not end in August or September so let's watch and enjoy some rivalries. I'm sure John Henry, Secretariat and even Funny Cide didn't rest on their laurels after the end of summer, they continued to race and test themselves well into the yr.

NTamm1215 08-30-2009 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
The gap between the 2 has closed, unless one subscribes to the theory that yesterday's Travers was weak, also you can't believe Summer Bird had a realistic chance at Monmouth on that track and the way the race played out by Kent D engaging Munnings early on while Rachel watched?

Regardless the racing season does not end in August or September so let's watch and enjoy some rivalries. I'm sure John Henry, Secretariat and even Funny Cide didn't rest on their laurels after the end of summer.
Summer Bird ran great again and kudos for being on him so early, but remember, there's no such thing as a rivalry until each side has beaten the other.

NT

CSC 08-30-2009 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTamm1215
Summer Bird ran great again and kudos for being on him so early, but remember, there's no such thing as a rivalry until each side has beaten the other.

NT
Very true, right now SB is Carol Burnett to RA's Pam Anderson...Which makes this a very interesting year for racing doesn't it? If anything I am far more interested in this year's possible matchups than last year's. And really we have RA to thank for that...she is the pinnacle that every should be shooting for, everyone should want to take on the champ, if they don't I think they are in the wrong sport.

Danzig 08-30-2009 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
The gap between the 2 has closed, unless one subscribes to the theory that yesterday's Travers was weak, also you can't believe Summer Bird had a realistic chance at Monmouth on that track at less than the classic distance and the way the race played out by Kent D engaging Munnings early on while Rachel watched? All things considered he did well to hold 2nd in that race.

Regardless the racing season does not end in August or September so let's watch and enjoy some rivalries. I'm sure John Henry, Secretariat and even Funny Cide didn't rest on their laurels after the end of summer, they continued to race and test themselves well into the yr.

i'm aware of how much time is left to race this year. i also know that rachel hasn't had one mis-step, not one loss or need for an excuse all year.
the haskell wasn't exactly that long ago. it's certainly fresh in my memory, as is the amount of distance between summer bird and rachel at the wire. i like summer bird, i think he's turning out to be a nice colt, but i see no reason to face off vs the filly again. the fact that she's run and remained in training all year seemingly without a hitch speaks volumes about her ability.

King Glorious 08-30-2009 06:40 PM
She didn't just beat him, she toyed with him. Destroyed him. Even if the gap has closed, it couldn't be enough to make it competitive.


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