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-   -   3/29 (GP): 57th Florida Derby (Gr. I) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21133)

Borntorun 03-28-2008 09:13 AM

I played Lawyer Ron in the Whitney last summer despite the wide post (#10 out of 11?) b/c he his speed figures (Beyers/Track Variants) said he could win at the distance. Is the bias vs. o/s posts at GP at 1 1/8th significantly different than Saratoga? If not, perhaps BB can get out quick enough to run three wide into the 1st turn and leave them in his dust like Lawyer Ron did in the Whitney?

I am in the top 10 in our local OTB RTD contest and would love to play vs. BB to gain points on those ahead of me, but the others I like are also in o/s posts (#s 8,9,11) and I question if #s1 or 2 will improve enough to hit the wire first.

Bobby Fischer 03-28-2008 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borntorun
I played Lawyer Ron in the Whitney last summer despite the wide post (#10 out of 11?) b/c he his speed figures (Beyers/Track Variants) said he could win at the distance. Is the bias vs. o/s posts at GP at 1 1/8th significantly different than Saratoga? If not, perhaps BB can get out quick enough to run three wide into the 1st turn and leave them in his dust like Lawyer Ron did in the Whitney?

I am in the top 10 in our local OTB RTD contest and would love to play vs. BB to gain points on those ahead of me, but the others I like are also in o/s posts (#s 8,9,11) and I question if #s1 or 2 will improve enough to hit the wire first.

That is a pretty good comparison. You get just an instant more time at Saratoga to run up, and the turn seems to be maybe a second longer at Gulfstream, but it is very close.
3 wide probably isn't realistic here, because Face The Cat, Elysium Fields, and probably BB Frank are all going to asked for position out of the gate and try to join Fierce Wind near the front. Maybe 5-7 wide and a little bit of a brush.

Coach Pants 03-28-2008 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robfla
Not too much mention of Hey Byrn. He appears to me in tip-top form, loves the track and don't underestimate his trainer who is 18% in Graded Stakes. His running style is perfect for a race like this, and having a jockey that isn't a "top name" he will be an overlay.

my tri:

9 /1,2,6,8/ all = $40
9 in the 2nd slot too.

My only knock on him is he's lazy out of the gate. And with that post it's a recipe for disaster.

King Glorious 03-28-2008 01:42 PM

Big Brown to win over Fierce Wind with a side bet on the other Zito.

ShadowRoll 03-28-2008 01:57 PM

1,2 w/ 1,2,12 w/ 1,2,4,5,8,12 = $16

Question whether Smooth Air can get the distance, but like the price.

miraja2 03-28-2008 02:26 PM

After spending the last 30 or so minutes studying these PPs I must conclude that this is one of the best G1s I can remember in recent years (in terms of a betting race, not field quality). There are a lot of interesting colts here coming off of career best performances that could take the next step and win. You have a big unknown in the South American horse, and the colt with the best speed figures parked way out there in a difficult spot.
You could make a reasonable case for a lot of these horses.

This is a fun race to look at. I still haven't made up my mind on the best way to play it yet.

miraja2 03-28-2008 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll
1,2 w/ 1,2,12 w/ 1,2,4,5,8,12 = $16

Question whether Smooth Air can get the distance, but like the price.

I don't think there is any way we can begin know what the price will be at this point.
It will be very interesting to see what the board looks like for this race come post time. I'm not sure what the betting public will make of Tomcito's class and/or BB's post position.

SniperSB23 03-28-2008 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
After spending the last 30 or so minutes studying these PPs I must conclude that this is one of the best G1s I can remember in recent years (in terms of a betting race, not field quality). There are a lot of interesting colts here coming off of career best performances that could take the next step and win. You have a big unknown in the South American horse, and the colt with the best speed figures parked way out there in a difficult spot.
You could make a reasonable case for a lot of these horses.

This is a fun race to look at. I still haven't made up my mind on the best way to play it yet.

Yeah, you can make a case to play or not play just about anybody. I rarely ever box but assuming no scratches I think I'm just going to box up Smooth Air, Fierce Wind, Tomcito, and Elysium Fields and hope for the best.

ShadowRoll 03-28-2008 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
I don't think there is any way we can begin know what the price will be at this point.
It will be very interesting to see what the board looks like for this race come post time. I'm not sure what the betting public will make of Tomcito's class and/or BB's post position.

Tomcito's gotten a little bit of hype, with comparisons to Cannonero II, so I'm guessing he gets bet down from his morning line with people looking for the proverbial dark horse. But Tomcito seems to be a sustained runner -- he came from pretty far back to win the Nacional -- and I don't think this race sets up for him if that's true.

BB's gotten more hype than maybe any horse on the trail this year. He'll be low odds no matter what. He is, after all, the best horse Desormeaux has ever ridden.

I think it's likely that Smooth Air is at least 10-1 given, as you say, the possibility that many of these horses could move forward here, and I'm hoping he gets lost in the crowd (betting-wise). But I think Stutts has him cranked up as far as he can go at this point, and I think he'll handle the early pace just fine with something left. A 10-1 horse on top of the tri will yield a decent payout.

Coach Pants 03-28-2008 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll
Tomcito's gotten a little bit of hype, with comparisons to Cannonero II, so I'm guessing he gets bet down from his morning line with people looking for the proverbial dark horse. But Tomcito seems to be a sustained runner -- he came from pretty far back to win the Nacional -- and I don't think this race sets up for him if that's true.

BB's gotten more hype than maybe any horse on the trail this year. He'll be low odds no matter what. He is, after all, the best horse Desormeaux has ever ridden.

I think it's likely that Smooth Air is at least 10-1 given, as you say, the possibility that many of these horses could move forward here, and I'm hoping he gets lost in the crowd (betting-wise). But I think Stutts has him cranked up as far as he can go at this point, and I think he'll handle the early pace just fine with something left. A 10-1 horse on top of the tri will yield a decent payout.

I think the early pace is the main concern for Smooth Air. If he's on or near the lead it could be lights out for the rest of the field. I don't think distance limitations matter that much on this course.

miraja2 03-29-2008 07:44 AM

1,8,9 / 1,6,8,9 / 1,4,6,8,9

Benny Leger 03-29-2008 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcs11204
i am confused by this post ? no idea where the money will go, are you kidding me ? he will be lower then 2-1, big brown is going to get pounded at the window,and he may win, but there is no value at all betting him in this spot.


12 hole is o-fer in 9f races since reconfiguration @ GP

sumitas 03-29-2008 11:07 AM

Majestic Warrior was the best 2 yr old imo. Then he got injured and his come back raised questions. But still, if he's recovered I think he can do it. WPS on MW.

justindew 03-29-2008 04:50 PM

Oh My God!
 
Wow!

Bobby Fischer 03-29-2008 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
Big Brown fits those requirements, but we've only seen 2 races. He may be great he may be good , he may be too fragile.

How much does that little burst and being 5 wide cost a Big Brown in terms of lengths when compared with his rivals? 5 lengths? 8 lengths?

and what

fpsoxfan 03-29-2008 04:55 PM

The Derby Favorite

fpsoxfan 03-29-2008 04:58 PM

Some people will have crow on the menu tonight! One of them will be me.

Bobby Fischer 03-29-2008 05:02 PM

well he was a heavy fav.
The public had no idea what he was up against. I feel like i did a good job of weighing track dynamics in thinking he had a chance to buck the trend, but really i was backing a heavy fav....

oddly those who took the "logical" approach were in the minority outside the internet...

Coach Pants 03-29-2008 05:15 PM

Must've been a dime or more on the show.


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