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-   -   Top 25 3yo's 1987-2007 (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20438)

SniperSB23 02-26-2008 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
Clearly he was better than Pepper's Pride.
I wasn't attempting to compare them in terms of ability.
I was just trying to make the point that I like to see horses actually beat some horse that can run before I would include the animal in a list of this nature.

Right, I just don't think it is fair that he gets slammed so bad for beating no one when he showed up at all the biggest races for his division. Slam away for the BC performance, for that he deserves it.

blackthroatedwind 02-26-2008 01:06 PM

Here are six horses from 1987 that were clearly better 3YOs than Lost in the Fog.....

Alysheba
Bet Twice
Gulch
Java Gold
Cryptoclearance
Gone West

and Lost Code and Polish Navy were probably better.

The Bid 02-26-2008 01:07 PM

LITF defeated Kelly's Landing but how many 3yo G1 sprints do they write?

philcski 02-26-2008 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch
can you include a horse who won 3 of 4 races as a 3YO, and only one G1?

These are awesome to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSo-M...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiiKgJiYCDM

Was there a more anticipated return of an older horse than Ghostzapper in recent memory, besides Curlin?

Not for me, at least. I almost shat my pants when I saw his 3yo debut.

Wouldn't include him in 3YO accomplishments because they weren't there. Unfortunately for him, he was 2nd fiddle in his own barn at that point.

philcski 02-26-2008 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid
LITF defeated Kelly's Landing but how many 3yo G1 sprints do they write?

Two

SniperSB23 02-26-2008 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
Two

What is the second?

King Glorious 02-26-2008 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
Did LITF ever defeat another G1 winner?

Realizing the abuse I'm going to take for this, I'm going to post it anyway. He never beat another grade one winner. Wait, what about Kelly's Landing who went on to win the Dubai Golden Shaheen? Fog beat him in Kentucky. Kelly's Landing is also the 6f track record holder at Churchill.

What I was going to say was what about Egg Head and More Smoke? I know, I know. But hear me out. When he beat More Smoke in March, it didn't mean much but then More Smoke came back in April to win the Lafayette with a 114 Beyer. Fog beat him by over five lengths. When Fog faced Egg Head in the Riva Ridge, Egg Head was coming off of a 112 Beyer. Again, I know what you all are saying. Probably shaking your heads over me bringing up Egg Head and More Smoke. But up until Fog ran the 116 in the Carry Back, the 112 and 114 earned by those other two were the highest 3yo sprint Beyers of the year and higher than all the figures that the eventual field for the BC Sprint ran that year, save for Gygistar (115), Wildcat Heir (117), and Pomeroy (114). So not only was Fog criss-crossing the country to win these races while giving away lots of weight, he was beating whatever was the next best out there and doing it handily. It's too bad Egg Head died. I think he could have become a grade one winner.

Also wanted to add that Fog had destroyed Social Probation and Santana Strings. Those two nobodies finished 1-2 over eventual BC Sprint winner Silver Train.

The Bid 02-26-2008 01:20 PM

Egg Head was a very good horse

King Glorious 02-26-2008 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Right, I just don't think it is fair that he gets slammed so bad for beating no one when he showed up at all the biggest races for his division. Slam away for the BC performance, for that he deserves it.

He gets slammed for beating nobodies but Mineshaft got awarded HOY in 2003 for the same thing. Think about it. In 2003, who were the top seven older males? In no order, I come up with:

Congaree, Perfect Drift, Medaglia d'Oro, Mineshaft, Candy Ride, Milwaukee Brew, and Pleasantly Perfect. Out of that group of seven, Mineshaft only faced one of those horses (Perfect Drift). He only faced that one horse one time. And he LOST. But he was the HOY. Go figure.

philcski 02-26-2008 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
holy cow, i never realized that!

still, he was better as a 3yo than a whole lot of the ones named in this thread. didnt he win the queen's plate in his 2nd or 3rd start?

Yes... 3rd start. Which, to be honest, isn't THAT great of an achievement, in fact this year I believe the winner did the same thing (and he isn't much).

I respectfully disagree he was better as a 3YO than a lot of the ones listed here- he was a pedestrian 6-3-0-2 with a maiden win, the Queens Plate, and the Jim Dandy- potential notwithstanding. However, his 4YO campaign was about as good as it gets. Trust me, he's one of my personal favorites and I'm thrilled he's doing so well at stud...

philcski 02-26-2008 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
What is the second?

Malibu.

Indian Charlie 02-26-2008 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
Yes... 3rd start. Which, to be honest, isn't THAT great of an achievement, in fact this year I believe the winner did the same thing (and he isn't much).

I respectfully disagree he was better as a 3YO than a lot of the ones listed here- he was a pedestrian 6-3-0-2 with a maiden win, the Queens Plate, and the Jim Dandy- potential notwithstanding. However, his 4YO campaign was about as good as it gets. Trust me, he's one of my personal favorites and I'm thrilled he's doing so well at stud...


well, on paper, yeah, he wasnt the greatest 3yo of the last 20 years, that's for certain. still, at the end of his 3yo campaign, i'd have taken him over MANY on these lists.

SniperSB23 02-26-2008 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
Malibu.

Ah yes, the 3yo stakes that is part of a 4yo series. Easy to forget.

blackthroatedwind 02-26-2008 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Ah yes, the 3yo stakes that is part of a 4yo series. Easy to forget.


Is this " stubborn " for " Thanks, I forgot about that one? "

The Bid 02-26-2008 01:37 PM

He would have won the Malibu healthy, he would have won the BCS healthy.

King Glorious 02-26-2008 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Here are six horses from 1987 that were clearly better 3YOs than Lost in the Fog.....

Alysheba
Bet Twice
Gulch
Java Gold
Cryptoclearance
Gone West

and Lost Code and Polish Navy were probably better.

Well, as you know, I believe this was the greatest crop ever. But let me ask you something. How sure can we be that these horses were better than Fog? Under 8f, probably the only one that could have beaten him was Gulch. I wouldn't take Java Gold or Alysheba or Cryptoclearance to beat Fog at 7f anymore than I would take Fog to beat them at 9f. They competed in different games. I think it would be fairer to compare him to Jazzing Around, Templar Hill, and Well Selected, horses that were among the best 3yo sprinters that year (won the Riva Ridge, King's Bishop, and Hutcheson, respectively.)

philcski 02-26-2008 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
well, on paper, yeah, he wasnt the greatest 3yo of the last 20 years, that's for certain. still, at the end of his 3yo campaign, i'd have taken him over MANY on these lists.

You ever visit Adena? Great facility, and some awesome stallions. AA loves the attention, GZ not so much... not to mention El Prado, Congaree, Alphabet Soup, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Ah yes, the 3yo stakes that is part of a 4yo series. Easy to forget.

That's why you have me around. :)

blackthroatedwind 02-26-2008 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
Well, as you know, I believe this was the greatest crop ever. But let me ask you something. How sure can we be that these horses were better than Fog? Under 8f, probably the only one that could have beaten him was Gulch. I wouldn't take Java Gold or Alysheba or Cryptoclearance to beat Fog at 7f anymore than I would take Fog to beat them at 9f. They competed in different games. I think it would be fairer to compare him to Jazzing Around, Templar Hill, and Well Selected, horses that were among the best 3yo sprinters that year (won the Riva Ridge, King's Bishop, and Hutcheson, respectively.)


Java Gold would have drowned him at 7F as would have Bet Twice. The others? Maybe. However, while I understand the point you are trying to make I think in overall talent they were better. They were, IMO, better at what they did than he was at what he did.

SniperSB23 02-26-2008 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Is this " stubborn " for " Thanks, I forgot about that one? "

That combined with the BC altering the calendar so much that I've come to think of the racing season ending on Thanksgiving weekend.

blackthroatedwind 02-26-2008 01:41 PM

I couldn't figure out which race it was either.


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