You are right Hoss, but that's a whole other argument. It's just his attitude in general in both interviews I've seen involving him on this issue. We can take the "It's Just their Job" attitude on a number of professions, but he just comes off a little to harsh for me. Other than that, I have no problem with the man.

Yes it will make a big difference in the current jockey's lives, but there will always be another (slightly larger) group of riders that will flip to make the new higher weight.

Raising the weights for jocks will by no means eliminate the abuse they put themselves through to make weight.

Make the weight 130 and you'll have 140 pounders in the hot box and fipping like mad to make the 130.

This thread has taken many interesting paths

Chris Antley
Kent D.
Lukas
Flipping

Andy,

When Chris was on his game and in the right frame of mind....he was one of the best. he was a personal favorite of mine early on in his career.

You couldn't be more right.....at least this time...lol.

NC Tony

Good point Andy...well said.

I don't see that as a reason not to raise weights. It's far easier to find humans who can remain healthy at a weight 10lbs over current, especially women. We shouldn't ignore that people have gotten markedly bigger over the last 100 years. Why do you think so few Americans (comparably) are jockeys? Americans have reaped the health and nutritional benefits of living here for decades and decades, compared to people from many other countries. We're huge.

And I think Lucas got really tired of tons of reporters asking him about the wonderfully close personal relationship between Antley and Charismatic, and finally set them straight.

Antley was a very gifted jockey. It's a shame he succumbed to his personal demons, it seemed so promising for him the last year of his life, with a new wife and baby.

"We shouldn't ignore that people have gotten markedly bigger over the last 100 years."

dwarfs, for instance, are 30% taller since 1910.

"Why do you think so few Americans (comparably) are jockeys?"

too busy exporting our exceptional health and nutrition to the rest of the world.

"Americans have reaped the health and nutritional benefits of living here for decades and decades, compared to people from many other countries."

is that just a nice way of saying we're shockingly fat?

"We're huge."

oh.






maybe the solution is bigger horses.

Whatever you may think of Wayne Lukas, hasn't he at least earned the right to have his name spelled correctly?

Or horses with bigger bone.

Yes, as long as jockeys are required to be a particular weight, many will have to keep their jobs by abusing their health. Hey, at least there exists an athletic population not on steroids.

But the weight the sport calls for is arbitrary. Jocks are incredible athletes. Wish the sport could allow them a little more health, as the practices required to make weight have long-term and permanent negative health ramifications.

My sincere apologies to Mr. Lukas for misspelling his name ;)

The problem with the weights is only a problem because the jockeys say it is. Like Da Hoss said, where do you draw the line? If you are too big and can't make weight naturally then it is YOUR fault if you resort to flipping, not horse racings. The minimum weights have been raised quite a bit. It wasnt long ago in KY if you had a 3 year old who qualified for all the allowances you could get in with 108. Not so any more.

As others have said including Wayne and Pat Day, raising the weights will not help solve the issue of flipping because bigger people will resort to doing it to make weight and those currently doing it wont stop, they will just eat more and in turn flip more.

In the end the horses will pay the price.

I agree with DaHoss and Cannon. However, I think weights should be considered in order to keep up with the pattern of people becoming physically larger.

Chuck,

I've heard both sides of the argument, but this is the part of the argument I don't understand. A horse is a rather big animal. How would an added 2 - 4 pounds hurt a horse?
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As far as the jockey weights in general. I'm not buying the notion that people are getting fatter. There were fat people 100 years ago. Even though Hossy and others bring up the point that flipping will still occur no matter what the weight is, I just feel that they should still raise it. Maybe it will increase the jockey pool. What's wrong with that? The bottom line is 110-112 lbs. is not a normal weight for 98% of the human population. I'd just like to see them give it a try and let the facts speak for themself.

wannabee what? im a fan of the game and a horse owner. believe me i got much better things to do especially these days especially taking care of my father with his illness then to come on here just make something like that up, anybody who has known me for over 5+ years since the espn board will tell you that since you apparently dont know me. i see all you can do is resort to namecalling since you havent a clue as to what youre talking about, i think ill take the word of somebody who was actually ON THE HORSES BACK over yours anyday. also if you go back and watch some of his races maybe youll see what im talking about. again you couldnt answer my question which tells me im wasting my time, and again youre just so blind and think im bashing zito when im not. sometimes even when a horse is properly maintained and recieves terrific care they still can come up very sore and have serious issues, especially ones who run as hard as DC did. you say you talk to NZ and he is your friend and are around his barn, well you obviously arent paying attention and arent learning anything from him

luka$$ coming out after that HBO special was luka$$ just being himself and wanting in the spotlight as he always does! he says he doesnt feel sorry for anyone driving 2 mercedes, shane sellers in particular. hmmmmmmm didnt know there was a penalty for success all of a sudden. pretty clear as day luka$$ doesnt give a sh1t about any except himself and his own ego. you cant deny what hes accomplished in the past but ironically since antleys passing and those comments hes made he hasnt performed like a HOF trainer. hes lost owners, very prominent ones(think that happened for no reason at all?) and hasnt had anywhere near a HOF trainers %. when it comes to opinions on jockeys i think ill disregard luka$$', after all this was a guy who had someone named ct lang(who?, exactly) ridin the barn for him at arlington several years ago who went 0 for 70 somethin for the meet

I used to think these horses where so fragile. Then I saw Larry Jones breezing his own horses.

The jockeys say it is a problem, because they are the ones suffering the permanent adverse health consequences with heart and kidney damage, esophageal erosions, etc. in exchange for a career of any length. They have the same health problems anorexic and bulemic young women do.

It's easy for an 18-year-old to make weight, but a thin-framed adult guy 5' 5" should weigh in at least 125 (still under ideal healthy body condition), but with the muscling needed to ride a horse, the bone-mass needed to support that muscle 135-140 is fair and still quite thin. We ask them to be, what, 110-118 or 120?

I haven't heard of any jockey shortages. As long as countries in South American continue to be 2nd and 3rd world (thus reliable producers of shorter, lighter-framed people due to decades of impoverished health and nutritional conditions), we will be able to get short, thin, lightweight kids trained ride racehorses.

What top weights do you think fair (safe) for 2-year-olds, 3-year-olds? The current weight allowances?

In your experience is it true, or just impression from legend, that average weights horses in the handicap division are asked to carry have lowered over the last 50 years?