Actually from good sources heard that he has had a very rough winter there in Dubai. And im not referring to the "spiked" temp weeks before the DWC. Anyway, yeah kind of expect the trash talk of these exceptional race horses when they finally do run a bad one.

Care to elaborate on a "rough winter?"...Just didn't settle back in to desert life?

I would love to see what this horse could do on the turf also, should take to it well

Hawthorne fall. After you claim him and run him 20 times at Arlington in Starter Allowances.

Yes I'd like to thank them for buying the competition and retiring them accordingly so their favorite horses can dominate.


Woo hoo go Team Dubai.

So you like to watch horses fornicate or run?

I'm a nomad at heart so I prefer watching horses fornicate.

Well it's no secret around here that he's never been the soundest of horses. And he just had more than usual of his aces and pains this winter. So they had to do a little "doctoring up", and well he just wasn't himself. Maybe the connections got caught up in the pressure of running him before the home crowd on their biggest night. Maybe they thought he was so good that he could overcome it. Whatever the case, he is an exceptional horse. You can't fault a horse for his ailments. Only the connections that run them when they are not 100%

What the hell makes him overrated? It can't possibly be all his wins, so it has to be his one loss, right?

What do I base what opinion on? That a one-length victory in one race doesn't make one horse definitively better than another? Do I really need to elaborate?

Okay, so you really don't know what overrated means.
Neither his wins nor his losses "make him overrated." In my opinion the quality of all his starts after his debut make him a very good horse (you are of course wrong to credit him with only "one loss" but I know you know that). His victories and his quality second place finish in the BCC meant that Bernardini was a very talented and accomplished horse. I don't see anyone denying that in this thread. We aren't avance here.
What makes him overrated is the fact that a lot of folks took those impressive performances and got carried away with them by saying he was one of the all-time greats. People don't seem to be doing that for Invasor even though he has a very impressive record and despite the fact that - in their one meeting - Invasor defeated Bernardini.
That is why I say Invasor is underrated and Bernardini is/was overrated. It has more to do with how people respond to these horses' performances than the performances themselves.
See what I mean?

You concluded that the horse that lost was better than the horse that won. Obviously you are going by something other than that one loss.
So yes, elaborate. How do you come to that conclusion?

Well this is certainly true. But by almost any measure in which horses could be evaluated, Invasor has a better career than Bernardini. Invasor has won more races, more stakes races, more money, won the only head-to-head matchup, and he has less losses (1) than Bernardini (2).
That doesn't mean Bernardini wasn't good. It just means that Invasor is very good.

I don't think he can. Is there any criteria to examine which wolud logically lead to the conclusion that Bernardini was better? There may be....but I can't think of any.

No. You can't read. I said that that race doesn't make Invasor definitively better then Bernardini. I didn't say Bernardini was definitively better than Invasor. I said they're both in my top five, and I didn't say in what order.

Then I would refer you to the Bernardini bashers that were calling him a mediocre 3-year-old that just beat up on bad competition all year long. I guess that would make him underrated. It wasn't all Bernardini fans, believe it or not. These are the same people that are now praising Invasor as the second coming. I don't think you can have it both ways.

At this point you shouldn't really be struggling trying to decide which horse is better. Its a no-brainer.

Thanks for telling me how I should be judging horses. I forgot that Bernardini's gotten smoked in every race since the Breeders' Cup.

i wonder if they should ship him back to the states for a new years campaigning. it laid him up for months when they brought him here last year, and after taking him home, he missed his dwc prep, and then bombed yesterday. i don't think it's much of a stretch to say this guy doesn't like to travel.

ateamstupid,
I really am not trying to pick a fight with you.....but are you going to address any of these points or not?

And that is the crux of the whole matter. He is not running. Invasor is. And he is traveling and showing a great deal of ability to adapt off layoffs and he just does not tire out. Pretty incredible animal. Glad to be watching him and wish Bernardini, Smarty Jones, Barbaro, were all still running. But they are not.

So I guess Candy Ride is a top 5 horse for beating, not losing, to a top notch horse like Megs.

of course it is. don't you know, bernardini was the greatest of all-time!!
bernardini could have beaten citation in a match race at 10 furlongs......jogged a lap to rest up.......then defeated secretariat in a match race at 10 furlongs...........then done 3 back flips..........then beaten affirmed in a match race at 10furlongs........while running backwards.
don't try to fight it anymore dude.......he was the greatest.