Not for old school trainers. 7 weeks was an eternity.

I dont listen to that Smith guy, theres better info than what some jockey has to say.

Have you ever looked at him before? He's fat and doesn't appear to have any black in him.

Of course this is true. But my issue with Zenyatta is that if she had lost by a nose last year at Delmar we wouldn't be having this discussion. Winning the Classic was a great feat yet when you consider the quality of the field you can't maintain that she should be declared the equal(or greater) of all prior BC Classic winners. The streak is great yet when taken into the context of the surface issue and race selection it isn't exactly the equal of Cigar's winning streak (I'd say Citation as well but I can't say that I am familiar enough with the period to really comment on it accurately). These aren't criticisms of the horse. They are a sober critique of her qualifications.

I said last year that Jackson's "sportingness" was being overrated because of the fact that RA was an overwhelming fav in every spot that she ran in. That isn't saying that it wasn't a great accomplishment to run in and win the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward. It was. But I severely doubt that had the competition been merely average for those races that he would have been nearly as "sporting". He was taking advantage of the situation that was presented to him and that is fine. But it doesn't make her the greatest horse to ever look through a bridle. It made her a great horse with a willing owner that took advantage of some weak fields in races that are traditionally strong. Her races this year are proof that the modern way of campaigning horses makes it nearly impossible for the horses of today to ever compare to the horses of years past. The abbreviated, "managed" campaigns simply dont allow us to get a true measure of a horse.

He looks blacker than our current president

I too thought RA deserved the HoY because the sum of her accomplishments were greater than Zenyatta's which were almost all tied into one race. The closeness of the vote was probably due to the fact that many of the voters are witless and the fact that Zenyatta's race was much more recent when they cast their votes. If you unemotionally look at the pp's for the 2 horses last year it is hard to make a case that Zenyatta had a better year or accomplished more than RA did.

no that really isnt it. it is part of the discussion i think though. im not sure how you can ignore it.

Cannon ... you must've backed FT for '97 HotY ... right?

I dont remember caring much

i agree, rachel did more and shes paying a price for it. she deserved HOY for pushing the envelope to the limit. but, these people are ruled by emotions and don't even see the weakness in that when gambling. the best horses rachel beat were chump change to zenyatta. someone said zenyatta beat a weak field in the classic...those horses were way better than macho again and bullsbay and she did it at 10 furlongs. this year theres no comparison, so far, rachel lost to zenyatta's sparring partner. a horse thats not even in her league as she rolled past her last sunday. the other horse that beat rachel comes back and loses convincingly at belmont. meanwhile, zenyatta wins and wins dirt or poly. comparing this years pp's is like apples and oranges. the emotions coming out are people crying over the obvious.......lol

I dispute that RA is paying any price for anything. If both horses competition is considered soft, does it really matter whose was softer? It is still not up to par when you compare these horses to other great horses. I can't find much fault in RA's campaign last year because even though the fields she faced were at least below average for those races, she competed in races that really matter. The Preakness, Haskell, and Woodward are far more prestigious that anything that Zenyatta ever ran in besides a BC race. Sadly that remains true and looks like it wont change.

She was on the honorable mentions list:

Honorable mention among the more than 100 female champions of this era who are not listed above include, at the very least, these 10: Estrapade, Hollywood Wildcat, It's In The Air, Landaluce, Pebbles, Royal Heroine, Safely Kept, Turkish Trousers, What a Summer and Xtra Heat.

no, why would you do that? did we just start running sprints and turf races less than 5 years ago?

Eddie D mentioned Hollywood Wildcat didn't like Churchill downs, otherwise she might have been on that list.

By the way would Safetly Kept still have won the BC sprint, had the euro sprinter Dayjur not jumped his tracks with the win just yds away in his grasp? I don't know I thought Meafara was more impressive in her 2 BC Sprint races.

How about Meadow Star? Honorable mention? Hard to think of a more impressive 2 yr old season than hers.

I think he was linked to a Toronto Trainer when he was with the Blue Jays, he definitely was bulkier post Boston Red Sox. The guy is also a big time azz that would rival Ben Roethlisberger.

Female sprinters and female turf horses don't get their due because people don't care as much for for those divisions and because there are fewer Grade 1's out there to pile up the resume with.

Which is a shame. Grade 1s are not the only determination to greatness.

Jersey Girl toyed with Banshee Breeze

And he did beat Gulch and Precisionist in the Tom Fool.

I can think of several.

Let's examine her stakes win as a 2 yr old, those among she beat were Hall of Famers Dance Smartly and Flawlessly. She was pretty prolific as a 2 yr old.

1990 G1 BREEDERS CUP JUVENILE FILLIES
1990 G3 ASTORIA STAKES
1990 G1 SPINAWAY STAKES
1990 G1 MATRON STAKES
1990 G1 FRIZETTE STAKES
1990 G2 SCHUYLERVILLE STAKES

As a 3 yr old, defeated Lite Lite, Versailles Treaty and Do it in Style, before fizzling out to end her career.

Here's one of her more memorable races The Mother Goose duel with Lite Lite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efSTvXN98A0
1991 G2 COMELY STAKES
1991 G1 MOTHER GOOSE STAKES
1991 G1 ACORN STAKES

Landaluce and Go for Wand come to mind.

I could make a case for Halfbridled.

flanders was a pretty good 2 year old. maybe not as good as landaluce or go for wand, but she did outgame serenas song while injured.