LOL - You can't be serious. And you say I have no comprehension of the issues? <g>

First, there are no "death panels". There are provisions for people, families, to discuss with their doctors if they want living wills, if they want to be kept alive on machines, etc. This is a decision families and the patient makes. The government has nothing to do with it. However, it will be paid for.

This is the same thing the GOP put into Medicare two years ago. You know, the same GOP that are now screaming "Death Panels" !!!

Sarah Palin is a moronic idiot. The Senate took out that provision before they went on recess. That was the beginning of August. The Senate is still in recess. This happened before Caribou Barbie posted that Obamas Death Panel was going to determine if her Down Baby would live, depending upon his contribution to society.

Did I mention Sarah Palin is a moronic idiot?

Then, a couple days later, Sarah Palin - who must have discovered there was no "Death Panel" provision in the Senate bill - took credit for getting it taken out. Amazing feat, as the Senate isn't even in session, and the provision isn't in the Senate bill to start with.

Did I mention Sarah Palin is a moronic idiot?

Your focus on personal insults are nothing more than the foot-stomping temper tantrum of last resort by the person with no arguments.

BTW, you might "google" a little more, you may become better educated on healthcare reform. But I doubt it.

And it appears today that the government option isn't going to be dropped. Keep up.

How because you say so :zz: ?

If more card issuers will charge annual fees, up from the current 20 percent that do so today, they make their cards "variable rate" cards, subject to an index such as the prime rate, plus a few percentage points, and they will be cutting back on reward programs, or making it more difficult to earn or redeem points. And some have started charging a fee of as much as 5 percent for transferring a balance, how does that lead to responsible people paying less? Same logic of spending your way out of bankruptcy IMO.

How about all the good things the bill is doing? Just ignore that?

You should attack the credit card companies for getting in one final effort to screw you, their customer, before they no longer can.

Attacking the people that put the locks on the credit card companies is ridiculous.

But you guys go right ahead, it's all you've got :D

The new bill does nothing for the 'responsible people' it's for the 'irresponsible people' who are willing to sign anything regardless of interest rate or terms for more credit and the simpletons who need a week in order to fill out a check. The only responsible people who are going to benefit from this are the ones that get screwed with by the Post Office. Yet another reason why 'responsible people' want the Government nowhere near their health care.

Your opinion.

In what world?

Your kidding right? Despite your swooning over it, the bill doesnt do much for responsible consumers. You posted a link that spelled out why. Didn't you read it? No one attacked anyone but you. We simply pointed out the flaws in thinking that the responsibile consumer is somehow helped out. They arent. We all know the creditcard companies are dirtbags.

If more card issuers will charge annual fees, up from the current 20 percent that do so today, they make their cards "variable rate" cards, subject to an index such as the prime rate, plus a few percentage points, and they will be cutting back on reward programs, or making it more difficult to earn or redeem points. And some have started charging a fee of as much as 5 percent for transferring a balance, how does that lead to responsible people paying less? Same logic of spending your way out of bankruptcy IMO.

from an earlier Dell post

she's gonna go to the 'Carter' move soon LOL

I think I'm catching on. Logic means nothing and hope is everything.

GM ups production helped by Cash for Clunkers
 

DETROIT (AP) today -- Higher sales, in part from the government's Cash for Clunkers program, are spurring General Motors Co. to boost production at several of its factories.

The automaker said Tuesday it will add 60,000 vehicles to its production in the third and mainly the fourth quarter. It will also bring back about 1,350 laid-off workers in the U.S. and Canada.
GM will add a shift to its CAMI factory in Ingersoll, Ontario, where the new Chevrolet Equinox and GMC Terrain midsize crossover vehicles are made. The company's Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant, where the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 are made, also will see additional shifts.
-------------

Good news those folks are going back to work.

yea but bad news to the people who put up 3 billion plus administrative costs incuding extra workers to get a portion of a whole 1,350 jobs back. Hooray!!!! You the Man!

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/...dit-card-laws/

Since you wont bother to read the link I will highlight some things for you.

When the new credit card laws officially start today, millions of Americans will see a host of improvements on their accounts; unfortunately, many have already begun to see higher interest rates.

People with cards from American Express (AXP), JP Morgan Chase (JPM), Citigroup (C), Discover (DFS), Capital One (COF) and others have been reporting increases even if they've never made a late payment and have excellent credit scores

For people who have lost their jobs, rapid interest rate increases and minimum payment changes put even more strain on their budget and will push them even faster toward bankruptcy


Many credit card issuers are getting rid of fixed rate cards completely and instead offering variable rate cards set to an index. That way they don't have to send notices at all. As the index rate goes up, so does the credit card rate. This method enables them to avoid the protections in the new law.


cardholders can expect to see more fees added on to their accounts. For example, some cards are starting to charge a fee to reinstate rewards points if customers are late on a bill, and it seems likely that they'll find other fee innovations before the new law takes effect in February 2010.

Ultimately, with higher fees and interest rates pushing more customers in default, everyone loses

tens of thousands laid off...the 1350 getting recalled is a drop in the bucket, and unworthy of a big hooray.

from what i've read, a lot of folks with good credit are seeing their rates go up-everyone will see that happen. it's not as tho the companies will not attempt to keep their bottom line where it is...

[quote=Danzig]from what i've read, a lot of folks with good credit are seeing their rates go up-everyone will see that happen. it's not as tho the companies will not attempt to keep their bottom line where it is...[/QUOTE]

Including insurance companies who write health policies.

[quote=dellinger63
Including insurance companies who write health policies.[/QUOTE]

But as someone who believes that only people that can afford to pay for health insurance deserve good health care, you're good with that. In your life, you'll never be priced out of health insurance, or be rescinded, or be refused to be covered for any pre-existing condition :tro:

People going back to work in America is unworthy of a big hooray?

Except that far more than 1350 people are affected. The families who now can come off unemployment, food stamps, and Medicaid (that makes me happy, because I help pay for that), and keep their houses, buy groceries, and have a little disposable income to put back into their local economy and keep them solvent and maybe cause some new hires (like florists, the local pizza place, the dry cleaner); in addition to the couple of thousand jobs associated with ancillary industries that feed parts and materials into GM autos and depend upon that industry - steel, plastics, manufacturing parts industries - that will also have to rehire people and increase production to meet the needs of their client GM.

The recession isn't going to end magically all at once, with everyone going back to work all at once. Every step in the right direction is good.

Yes, Cannon, the first thing that should be done is that the loan-shark consumer revolving credit industry should be left completely alone as it is now, because all that matters in the economy and the lives of consumers is the next week - not the next 10-20 years.

If a fat tub of lard is going to be charged a premium on his policy becaue he's sitting on a grabber or he's a man whore/drug abuser oozing in disease and somehow I have to pitch in with everyone else (oops should say those who pay taxes) to make his payment equal to mine so he can continue his desert? No I'm not good with that. Not at all.

Except we could have paid each one $2,000,000.00 (two Million Dollars) kept just under 400K for us and sent home all these workers processing the rebates that aren't getting processed (duh it's the Government) saving more money, saved a forest load of wood used to make the paperwork, shut off all the lights in those rebate processing offices and each compensated worker could start a small business that would employ mutiples of 1300. You know the Republican way!!!! Plus those no good government rebate workers could go work for private insurance companies and learn how to actually 'process' in between breaks.

millions out of work, and 1350 makes a difference? lol
unemployment is expected to remain above 10% for some time-and once cash for clunkers dries up, and demand dissolves, where will those 1350 be? so yeah, a hooray for them-but not a big one.

and now i see cash for clunkers ends monday. probably because they're so far behind processing payments they don't know where they even stand at this point. i wonder how many dealers will end up holding the bag?

Your math leaves out alot.

More terrible news for you: It's so successful it's ending Monday; 40% of claims have been processed, should be current next week; so far auto dealers have made deals worth $1.9 billion (helping save their small businesses, their employees jobs, contribution to their local economies, etc) and the incentives have generated more than 457,000 vehicle sales (getting gas guzzlers off the road, and newer more efficient cars on, and prompting gearing back up of the auto industry, with rehiring of employees, etc).

And Hyundai recalled 3,000 workers in Alabama.

Yes, unemployment is always the last thing to return to normal after any downturn, and it's expected to be high for two years. It will still be high when the economy is definitively growing.

And if those 1350 do end up laid off again sometime in the future, next year - at least you should be happy they were off the public dole for a year, and you and I weren't paying for their food and housing.

What you want another 3 Billion? And 4% not 40% have been processed. But then again your math dictates you pay $120 instead of a $30 co-pay to keep your insurance from being increased. Lastly good for Hyundai they're laughing all the way back to Korea as are their Japanese neighbors. At least they should need less aid next year. Maybe we can recoup some then, but I won't hold my breath.

No one said that nothing should be done. What was done does have some unsightly side effects that will felt far longer than next week. It is a smoke and mirrors victory against credit card companies which negatively effects responsible consumers. Hardly a cause for celebration.

i dont know how anyone could not view cash for clunkers as a success regardless of how moderate you might view it. Making it into some kind of failure erodes credibility.

There are many holes that can be punched into the policies of the current administration (or any administration if you will). Even W. had successes. This is one of Obama's.

Looks like at least 700,000 sales when this stunningly successful program ends Mon.



Well done, BO...

Just wait to see auto sales 6 months from now, or a year down the line. They will be down. People who were considering getting a car (those who qualified) just bumped up the purchase date to take advantage of the free money. Rob future sales to prop up current sales. Another bandaid solution.

this program can only be viewed as a debacle. spending billions to give to certain people that would have bought cars eventually anyway. there is no net benefit.

the laughable part is to see first hand how incompetent government programs are and the unintended consequences like people turning in US models for foreign cars.

Im not saying that this is any kind of silver bullet for the car industry. As I said, depending on how you view it, the degree of success is certainly arguable. My point was that there is no debating that this program was indeed a success on some level.

What difference does it make if the cars turned in were US models?

That doesn't make any sense to me. Car sales have been way down. People were waiting, holding off to buy cars. All this did was unleash the pent-up waiters that hadn't bought in the last few months, encouraging them to go ahead and jump into the economy.

I don't see any reason to assume these were "future" buyers. Why do you also assume that car sales will dry up in the next year?

BTW, "cash for clunkers" programs were used last year in several European countries. That's where the idea came from. Worked just as well as it did here. Subsequent sales didn't dry up. Which countries economies are turning around before us?

That article confirms that Cash for Clunkers was a resounding success. It retroactively comments on the execution, mostly based upon government underestimation of the popularity and success.

But they were not buying cars. That is the point. We were in a deep recession last year, deeping towards a depression. Nobody was buying cars. Auto workers were laid off. The industry was in deep trouble. The program obviously was a success in that it got thousands spending money in the economy. Which is what is needed to get out of a recession.

Too bad "American" companies don't make an efficient, well-made car people preferred. You said you bought "foreign", so you supported them yourself.

Those 3000 American Hyundai workers are probably laughing all the way back to the bank, off the unemployment lines, too.

people weren't buying cars for a reason and they still won't be buying cars now that this program has ended. the last thing we need is more of the phony borrow and consume economy. we need to save and invest.

this is only a temporary artificial demand, it means nothing in the long run with regard to the real economy. it will make a spike in car sales to be followed by a trough.

I'll bet you didn't know that during the runup to this program car prices were raised, so the deal buyers got wasn't all you might think.

this has next to nothing to do with when the recession ends. government spending does not create wealth or growth, just the opposite.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32512922...nting_america/


While small in comparison to other stimulus programs, Cash for Clunkers adds to the perception that Obama is simply trying to spend his way out of the economic downturn and let future generations deal with the consequences. The White House is expected to announce next week that the federal deficit will be a record $1.58 trillion for the current 2009 fiscal year, about $262 billion less than predicted earlier but still three times as large as last year.

"It fits into that theme of artificially trying to pump up the economy in the short run but in my view at the expense of long-term growth," said Chris Edwards, an economist with the libertarian Cato Institute. "It increases the government's debt and will probably, like those other temporary programs, produce higher inflation in the future."