Fine. They aren't corrupt, just incompetent. Who cares either way. They are losing millions every single year.

Did you get that one out of you book of original thoughts? :eek:

I don't have a brother either. It is my friend's brother.

Don't you have to go out and raise money for the latest Republican child molester who goes telling us how moral he or she is. LOL. How about raising money for Katherine Harris' latest facelift?

You throw around slanderous words constantly and when proven wrong on one you move to another with a " who cares either way "?

You have been PROVEN wrong on numerous occasions in this thread. But you certainly don't care " either way ", those options being accurate or inaccurate, so why shouldn't you simply spew more inaccuracies. This is the internet after all.

No. I still say they are corrupt. Once corrupt always corrupt. It is just a matter of time before it comes out. The fact that they continue to just lose money by the millions gives plenty of strength to my belief. However, if you think otherwise, than explain to me how they lose millions every single year.

Please, explain this to me. I have yet to hear how a non-profit can just lose tens of millions every single year.

I believe your first statement more, the part about changing the screen name.
j/k Hey maybe we can do this more often id it works out. If not one runs the other off the site.

Once corrupt always corrupt.

Interesting thought. So, I guess you feel that if you go to work for NYRA you automatically become corrupt? I know the answer, you have given it, which I find interesting. By the same token, if the Knicks say have an incompetent coach, and fire him, the next person will also be incompetent, as it is the position that performs at a certain level, according to you, and not the person inhabiting it.

You really are clueless. Thanks for the uplifting thoughts. Listening to you would make anyone feel better about themself.

There you go Rev!! That's the ticket. Half of all the teachers in the U.S. leave the profession after 5 years. A full 50%. Either it's too difficult for them or they don't earn enough to live where they do....Not crying poverty here, just making a point. The better the salary system, the more attractive candidates you could attract to the profession and at the same time keep those productive teachers who are already there.

most teachers leave because they can't hack it. it's not the salary and the hours that's for sure.

Oh boy! Sumitas!
That statement is one I can't agree with.
I'm with Randall on this one.
I really wish you knew how many hours outside of the classroom are spent in mandatory training, grading papers and lesson planning.
teachers deserve far more...both in respect and financially.

I sat on my hands before I typed anything on this thread ( and it's been an interesting read).
NYRA's alleged "corruption" is nothing. I'm saying NOTHING!
Do a google search of Neil Mallon Bush. Yes, he's our beloved president's brother. Yes, he paid a small fine in the 80's while the taxpayers bailed out Silverado Savings and Loan for a billion dollars. Yes, that's with a b.
He avoided jail time.
Now brother Neil has his hooks in education through his "business", Ignite!
And how is this wonderful enterprise funded?
Through daddy Bush's Crest Investments.
Ummm, corruption? Teacher's fault? Huh?
Google it. You might find more sins than nyra's.

as far as the Knicks coach analogy... yeah, at some point the answer is yes. you keep hiring failures, guess what, you are a failure yourself. In the real business world, you're out.

And on the subject of your NYRA reform leader Alan Hevisi...

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories...ate=10/26/2006

Is this person not highly involved in "reforming" NYRA?

My only point is this.... Non-profits, especially those mandated (read, run) by a State government make those non-profits political process driven, at least to some extent. Just like government run health care, you can expect it to run inefficiently.

That's my point.

I used the Knicks as a joke, as it could have been any head coaching position in sports, as the point is individuals are corrupt or incompetent and it is not the position they hold as that is just a title. In the case of " NYRA ", it is the name of the organization, and while there has certainly been incompetence in the past, there is not currently and the individuals holding positions there should be judged on their merits and not those of previous job holders. None of the current NYRA management were involved in the indictments of the past.

I am not making an opinion of Alan Hevesi, but as he is the one where many of these allegations of corruptions stemmed from, it is also important to note that he has subsequently claimed they have cleaned themselves up. You can't believe one and not the other.

The only I have to add to this thread is a link to Mr T

"I Pity The Fool"

Great new show, good comedy

http://www.mrtvseverything.com/

I guess there are just some people who feel non-profits are just no good at making money. Reasons include inability to compete for good people (read, compensation) and lack of sense of urgency. I suppose I'm one of those people. And when you have politicians at the State level "reforming" an industry at a time when the key to the vault is up for grabs, people are going to cast a jaundiced eye. I'm not judging Hevesi either. But the story I posted is what you get. It's not just regulation and reform. It's also politics. And when you take most any politician and start peeling the onion, ...

I have no problem with the Not-for-Profit vs. for-profit argument and am sure with more knowledge one could easily argue both sides. Certainly the Government involvement that has come with this Not-for-Profit model, along with former administrations, has not necessarily served NYRA particularly well in the past. It has not, however, prevented them from running the most successful year round racing enterprise in the country and that fact should not be lost. In this specific instance I have a great deal of confidence in the current NYRA management team going forward. That is not to suggest, however, that another group could not also do well, with a for-profit model, but in this particular instance I have seen nothing to give me any confidence in the other bidders. From what I have seen, one of these groups would certainly be a poor choice while another has not shown its hand in any way. So, in this particular circumstance I would be more comfortable with the administration of NYRA, but I have no problem with the general argument.

The problem in this thread is a lot of slanderous and untrue allegations were being thrown around by a foolish instigator, with little to no understanding of the situation. The intelligent argument about the future of the franchise, and for-profit vs. not-for-profit, is a much more interesting and enlightened argument that I welcome.

If keeping it in the hands of the NYRA means I'll only have to pay $3 admission and can bring in a cooler full of any food and drink I want then I am all for the NYRA.

Who cares about admissions and costs of refreshments. New Yorkers dont even go to the track with the exception of Saratoga. Big deal if they raise the price of admission. And by the way, it is only $2 to get into Churchill so I don't understand this arguement that admissions would increase. To me that point is a non issue. The issue here is running an organization without having to ask the state for millions of dollars. If I lived in New York and I didnt care about horse racing I would be pissed that millions are going to support a non-profit. I would be even more pissed if I worked at a non-profit hospital and havent had a raise in years and I saw the NYRA getting millions of dollars to bail out a poor business model. Also, I am assuming the NYRA is clean now because no one is really complaining about corruption. However, that stigma will always be there and rightfully so. The new leadership has to change the culture before people can start having confidence in the "new" NYRA.

Teachers----I do not think teachers are under paid at all. People choose to be a teacher. You actually have to go to college and get a Masters. You know the pay going in so it is your choice to make that pay. They work about the same amount of hours as a person who is not a teacher that works a 40 hour a week job in a years time. The benefits, the retirement and the age of retirement are all very attractive. I believe in Indiana you can retire by using a formula--something like years of experience plus age and if that number is 52 or 58 you can retire. What many teachers do in Southern Indiana is to retire from Kentucky and then move over to Indiana to teach and then they pull down 2 retirements. Now find me a job where you can retire at the age of 55 and receive full pension and benefits.

Euro,
if you think teachers will be able to hold on to health benefits and pension by the time I'm 55 I have a bridge to sell you. It won't be there....I have no problem with you saying that teachers know the pay going in. Very fair and I really don't complain about. I'm much more angry when they say teachers are overpaid. Last I looked I got about a 3% raise last year. The cost of living in New Jersey went up by 3.5%. Do the math, I am losing each year, not gaining....I can't think of another job where people say you "should get paid this or that." I don't go to a doctor's office or a mechanic and tell them what I think they are worth. I think the issue is that everyone went to school and everyone thinks they could do the job....You should realize, however, if you have kids or want kids that schools are about as important as it gets. And if you do, you'd also realize that without changes to the pay scale, the teacher pool and moreover the quality of the teachers will continue to diminish. If that's what you want for your kids then that's fine. It's not what I want.

There seems to be a major disconnect going on here. NY Racing, aside from the obvious jobs it provides in NY State, also contributes enormous revenue to the State. This is undeniable and should be obvious. The money needed for the " bailout " is a LOAN, something that is done by the State in many situations, and will be paid back.