Despite the rhetoric from the uninformed, the vast majority of medication is used properly and isn't "abuse" or illicit. The problem that I have talked about for years is that the authorities have failed to give us clear and undisputed schedules for most completely legal medications. The Mid-Atlantic plan is better than what we have had but still is very limited in its scope and number of allowable medications. Just using something relatively innocuous like stomach ulcers as an example, the new plan only allows 1 type of ulcer medication to be used and that is the $30 a day medication. There are many over the counter meds available far cheaper (zantac, carafate and tagament for example) and nearly as effective that are now "illegal" for use. It is easy to say that you should just stick to the only allowable medication but only about 5% of the horses in training are worth enough to spend $1000 a month on just ulcer medication. So what does a trainer who doesnt have ability to put every horse on gastrogard do? Try to treat them using small dosages? Withdraw long enough out (if we had any idea what that really is) and switch to gastrogard as the race came closer? Ignore the issue? Treat with aloe vera or other "natural" product which most likely wont work and because there is no FDA supplementation oversight, might contain something that will test?

The risk is that a misdemeanor charge of "race fixing" will prevent you from being licensed for a long time, if ever. Being that some over the counter ulcer med could trigger that charge and the fact that none of us can absolutely control everything that our horses ingest 24 hours a day who will want to take the chance? I personally have had 2 positive tests in 14 years (2000+ straters) and neither was a med that was even given close to the withdrawl time. One was for a minute amount of tranquilizer that we had no record of giving to the horse in question for 3 weeks prior to the race and the other situation was explained in an earlier post. To think that those would be potentially be considered criminal cases is troubling.

Allowing that I am unfamiliar, thankfully, with grand jury indictments, I notice that the indictments against Webb and Rogers refer specifically to one alleged act of injecting a specific horse, while the indictment against Wells lays out a more general scenario with no references to specific dates, horses or medications. Are both situations "normal" for grand jury indictments?

it is possible that it's a stretch to say it's fraud, but since the cheating can gyp bettors, i can see why they're trying to go that route. you're betting based on info given, and assuming a level field. cheaters are not just affecting race outcome, but wagering outcome.
it reminds me of capone. they couldn't prove criminal conspiracy, but they got him on tax evasion.

taking bribes to falsify info is. there's error, and there's intentionally conspiring. did they do so to defraud bettors? no, sounds more like they were trying to have works for horses who didn't work as a way to get around track officials.....but when doing so, they defrauded bettors. it wasn't intent, but it was a side effect of that conspiracy.

true. manipulating odds....could have been something else they were doing.

yes. they are seated to look at all gathered evidence to see if charges should be placed it could be one, a couple, or hundreds of charges..

Any Tranquilizers left?

I liken it to the S&P knowingly giving faulty ratings on risky investment ventures.

So are you saying that a trainer that decides to work his horse on the slow side purposely, (to probably inflate his price next time out) should possibly be charged with a felony too?

of course not. and i'm not even saying anyone charged in these cases we're discussing should have been charged.
now, if the trainer works him slow and then pays the clocker to put in a false time....well, now we're in new territory.
if you work the horse and he has the time, it's for the bettor to decipher.
if you have a conspiracy, bribery, and willful intent, don't be surprised if there's a knock at the door.
there's a line, they crossed it. did the guy paying the clocker think about all this? probably not. but you can bet everyone is thinking about it now.

lol only Roofies

I agree with that. I'm going to wait and see what these guys are actually convicted of and what the punishments are before I say much more. Things have run amok in this game far too long, and I'm guessing a few are going to be held up as scapegoats in an attempt to clean it up.

that's what i'm figuring as well, that they are being used to set an example.
tracks are supposed to be controlled by their states commission. things have been allowed to slide for too long. there has to be consistent rules, and fitting punishment and fines. and jokers who repeatedly violate should be out of the sport. does racing really need patrick biancone for example? jeff mullins? asmussen? if it takes a few heads to roll to let people know they can't keep getting hands slapped and nothing more, so be it.

I don't think this is the same thing, though of course I'm all for proper times making it into the PPs. While there are wrong times, I don't think anyone is doing it on purpose.

Now, in the Pacific Classic, there is 100% irrefutable proof the time is wrong, and yet they still stuck by it. If you back up the video from the finish line by the "official" time, the horses are still inside the stall. But those guys claim there is nothing "wrong" with the time, so I'm not sure what else you can do. Is it criminal that they are not very smart, at least in regards to timing races?

Saw that all except the clocker were released on a $25K unsecured bond and forfeiture of passports. All have no conditions other than David Wells who can drink but can't drink 'excessively'. :rolleyes:

IMO Alan Pincus's email being kelso64200@yahoo.com is the most interesting tidbit coming out so far.

Oh and cheating to try and win a race is far different to cheating to try to lose a race. Just ask Pete Rose.

The question is - is it wire fraud?

As one would expect from reading the indictment, the feds clearly think it is, which justifies their involvement.

Is this a crime that could potentially result in more than years worth of imprisonment for the accused?

Better?

i guess we're going to find out.

Sure, why not? Where do you draw the line if this isn't worth a year?