Rupert, are you talking about the joint injections that we most likely give to show horses too? Those are perfectly legal in racing aren't they? They have made a tremendous difference in some of the horses that I have ridden. Our vet usually gives them Legend Joint Injections.

[quote=Dixie Porter]You don't sound very intelligent when you knock a person't post if you don't explain yourself. It's pointless.

There is nothing wrong with knocking a post but there is a prpoer way to do it. If you're going to disagree with a person, you should way, "I think you are wrong. Here is why." And then you explain why they are wrong. You're not adding anything to a discussion by saying "that's stupid" or "you're wrong" or that type of thing if you don't explain yourself. You need to tell a person why their comment was stupid or why it was wrong. Otherwise, your comments are empty and are a waste of our time.

Padua current stable

Electrify (03 c) Delaware Township - Raspberry Eggcream
Formal Appeal (03 c) Successful Appeal-Sweetbabe
Gleaming Elegance, (03 f) High Yield-Juliet's Way
Magical Baby, (04 f) Forestry-Absolute Magic
Market Share, (04 c) Sky Classic-Ma Petite Mousse
Philanderer, (04 c) Yes It's True-I'll Bedazzled
Ultimat Perfection, (04 f) Tiznow-Western Delight
War Cry, (02 c) Unbridled-Words of War
Yes It's Time, (04 c) Yes It's True-Taunting

Injecting an ankle or joint is perfectly legal.

[quote=Rupert Pupkin]Waste of time? Waste of time? Do you realize to whom you are referring? You dont talk to the boss that way! No one talks to the boss that way!!!

Do you realize that my boss Dixie trained under Chuck Norris after he beat chuck in a round of poker?

Do you realize that my boss Dixie has forgotten more about horses than you will ever know? He learned from the great BA jones.

Now apologize before i let dixie go and he gives you an 80 year old karate chop on the side of your head.

Ok thanks, I figured so, but I didn't know for sure. The ones we use take about two weeks to fully kick in, and the horses that are having moderate to severe problems get injected about every six months. They really work though especially for about a month and a half after you administer them.

Sorry, but you could convince me that Santa Claus was real before you could ever convince me that trainers don't start their horses late because of the Breeder's Cup.

A horse running better as a 4 year old is not a golden rule either.

Some trainers do start their horses late, and some horses are better as three year olds than four year olds. However, most trainers only start horses back late because they don't have a choice due to an illness or injury. FA won his first start back very nicely, and lost all form from there. The horse is not the same horse, and it's not because he doesn't have the talent...

I like Flower Alley, but I think some people had their rosy tinted glasses on in regards to his talent, but you are correct he doesn't show interest in his races (but is training fine).

The BCC made me a believer in the horse. I think that some people overrated him a bit, but I do believe that he was a talented horse that was cetainly capable of finishing in the top three in all of his races this year, which he obviously did not do. I hope he is okay. Look at what happened to LITF...

Which is what I think his connections thought too and gambled they could grab the Eclipse Award in a Ghostzapperesque way (minus the crazy speed). Following the Classic there wasn't a Invasor, Lava Man or Sun King that looked really good at the moment...

Todd said last year, right after the BCC that FA would make a late start and point for the '06 BCC. It appears to me that they had that plan. A horse with a significant injury doesn't run BSF's in the 90's as FA did in the Whitney. He's lost some speed and not replaced it with closing kick.
As for the JCGC last year, once he was fried in a pace duel with his own rabbit (why'd Todd do that again?) Johnny just eased him up. he knew that the big race was 4 (3?) weeks away. The margin could have been 4 lengths or 40, the result was the same. He was not persevered with.

I don't know what his problem is this year but I doubt he has some terrible injury. They have gone over him with a fine toothed comb and found nothing.

Believe what you want to, but logic tells me that when a horse is as good as FA was last year, and falls out of form as he did this year, it means that they are being bothered by something such as an injury. I have seen it happen time and time again. I am always leary of horses making late starts back for this reason. My opinion won't change unless a valid, believable excuse is made to explain Flower Alley's poor performances. The injury doesn't have to be a terrible injury for it to be affecting his races negatively. It could even be a mild to moderate injury. When I referred to a 'significant' injury earlier, I meant one that was affecting his performances in races, which is certainly significant if you have one that is as nice as Flower Alley.

First of all, it it totally untrue that horses with serious problems don't run fast. Some of the sorest and most unsound horses out there run 6 furlongs in 1:08 3/5. You'd be shocked at how may horses out there run great with significant injuries. The horses won't last for very long, but you often times don't know how many races they will last for. Some of these claiming horses that have tendons are ticking time-bombs. They keep on winning but any day will be their last day. They may have 1 race left in them or they may have five or six. That's why sometimes you will see one of these horses win a few in a row at the same class level and nobody claims him. People are afraid that the horse will never be able to run again and yet the horse may win another 4 in a row.

Speaking of horses running fast with serious injuries, look at Afleet Alex. He won the Belmont with a hairline fracture.

With regard to Flower Alley, you don't know that they've gone over him with a fine-tooth comb and found nothing. I would bet serious money that they know exactly what's wrong with him. Just because they aren't saying it publicly, it doesn't mean that there is no problem or that they don't know what the problem is.

With reagrd to Flower Alley in the JCGC last year, he was done at the 3/8 pole. If he just got a little tired from the fast pace, he would have at least fought until the 1/8th or the 1/16th pole. Borrego was 6 lengths by him before they even hit the 1/8th pole. There is no way that FA could have finished within 4 lengths of Borrego. you're just guessing that he ran fine and got a little tired and that JV wrapped on him. You should watch the replay before you assume that.

No one knows when he had it, all they can do is speculate.

As for the JCGC, my point was that the margin of loss was a product of the early pace and JV knowing that he wasn't a contender at the 3/8 pole. He wrapped up. I don't think he could have been within 4 lenths, Borrego ate him up. The point was that the margin itself was meaningless. He proved it by running very well in the BCC.

I also find it hard to believe that if Todd knew after the Whitney that something was seriously wrong with his "HOY candidate" that he'd run back in the Woodward. You do that sort of thing with the claiming stock you refer to not the horse that you think could still get you an Eclipse. I'm sure that Melnyk is trying to sell FA for stud and any subsequent poor efforts with no announced reason cuts the price. If they know he has a particular serious issue they'd say so (to own the excuse) and not run him back. You don't wiat til the price is cut again and again by poor efforts, then announce why he ran so bad.

I know most of the lesser horses (and many of the top horses) have issues to one degree or another. They all have something that's not right. lesser stock gets patched up and sent over. Horses with residual stud value are handled with kid gloves.

I agree, good points.

I thought Vindication was named such because Lukas told Sanan that the colt would never race, so why buy him. Sanan was in love with the horse, so he bought him and sent him to Baffert. The brilliant animal went undefeated before being injured. He was then rushed to stud because his immortal sire had recently died and the young Slew was needed to carry on the line. Ironically, it was in Baffert's care and not the Coach's that he was injured.

The BC Classic last year was a dreadfully slow race with a bunch of terrible horses outside of Saint Liam. Saint Liam got stuck with a horrible post and wanted nothing to do with ten furlongs but the field was so terrible he won anyways. On many figures Flower Alley ran just as fast in the Whitney as the BC Classic, the figures just got adjusted up since they couldn't give that low of a figure to the BC Classic. The Woodward is the first race that Flower Alley didn't run his normal race and it appears that going all out in the Whitney and getting his butt kicked may have killed off his interest in racing.

I'm glad to see that HOY canindate was in quotes. This horse was terribly overrated off of 2 good (but neither great) races from last year. If this horse was trained by anyone else than Pletcher, he would have been considered an average horse.