I think it's hard to make judgements like these, Curlin was ridden to win in the Classic. Albarado probably moved too early and it cost him a few lengths, I seriously doubt they were in it to run for a placing, in the end it really doesn't matter if Zenyatta would have finished 4th or 5th, she would have to have won the Classic to be considered HOY, the argument is silly, it is almost like saying is Curlin as good as Music Note.

:) :tro: :tro: :)

its going to be curlin with zenyatta right behind. any other thought is a joke. peppers pride, big brown and commentator beat absolutely no one and its stupid they are even mentioned with the top 2.

No arguments on my choice here. The clear winner for HOY should be Big Brown. His results speak for itself. Based on the outcome of the BCC, I am more convinced Big Brown was the best horse in 2008.

i think big brown will finish ahead of zenyatta-and he may well finish ahead of curlin. the contention that big brown beat 'no one' can't really be argued, as the same can be said about curlin. the one really good field that he faced, he lost-that being the bcc. now, he gets a pass for that from many because it's an AWT, but the finish can't be discounted. i think big browns fla derby and ky derby looked far better than any race curlin put together this year.
as for those who say zenyatta didn't face males, therefore she shouldn't be considered-you have a point, to a point. the distaff division certainly wasn't a weak one this year, and she demolished her 'peers' time and time again, on more than once surface. that's something that can't be argued for either of the other two who will garner votes.

Or any other horse for that matter in 2008. That is one of many compelling reasons why Big Brown should and in my opinion will win HOY.

Better than Commentator's Whitney?

Exactly. Of course Big Brown's races looked good. He wasn't facing anything, especially in Florida. Big Brown's Florida Derby didn't LOOK any better than Commentator's Whitney and certainly didn't LOOK any better than Commentator's Mass Cap. They didn't LOOK better than Proud Spell's Ky Oaks or Music Note's CCA Oaks or her Gazelle or Indian Blessing's Test or Ventura's BC F/M Sprint or Goldikova's BC Mile.

I just watched the Whitney again. Very nice race for Commentator. He had complete control wire to wire and still had something in the tank. The reason I think Big Brown was equally impressive if not better at FL and definately better in the KY was the outside post wins. 20 horses entered in KY make that even more eyepopping.

I disagree. FL Derby Big Brown did face some talent. Hey Bern and Ilysium Fields were very good horses in April. He also destroyed the Belmont winner in that race.

Were you hired as a witness for the prosecutor or the defense? You weaken your argument on Big Brown's behalf by the mere mention of Hey Bryn and Ilysium Fields in the same sentence with the words "good horses". You completly destroy your argument by calling them VERY good horses.

And the Belmont winner is about the most awful horse to win a classic race in quite some time, as far as I can recall, so I don't think that helps either.

Well luckily for me, Commendable is just at the very beginning of my caring about horse racing....

But gun to my head I'm wheeling both underneath Jazil.

I said in April they were very good horses. I stand by that. Not very good as in past years but we are talking about 2008. And in April 2008 they were amonst the contenders for the Derby. To your point, neither one did anything special beyond that.

Jazil was underrated and not a slouch by any stretch.

Just because you said it in April didn't mean it was true then. I said Galloping Grocer was going to win the TC after his first couple of races. After a few more, I realized he was garbage and admitted as much. If you can't learn to adjust your opinion as more and more evidence pours in, your arguments really will have no merit because you will always be speaking from the perspective of trying to prove yourself right instead of objectively looking at things.

He beat everything he faced. I guess my bias throws out the Belmont because he was pulled up and arguably had several other things going on including an injured hoof. Clearly his foot injury factored into
his just wins, but he still did it. Big Brown also faced the most horses in the history of the TC during those five weeks. His KY Derby was more impressive than Barbaro's even though Barbaro was a comparatively faster horse.