I will bet him Albertrani or any trainer if I feel his horse has a chance to win. Its stupid to toss a horse out because of a reason like you say. I think Henny Hughes will be EXTREMELY tough to beat in the Kings Bishop though.

The Amsterdam got a 108 Beyer Speed figure....Songster got a 104 or one point higher than he earned in the Woody Stephens and three points less than the Hirsch Jacobs.

I'll get Steve to ask Jerry Brown of Tg what he got in the race and if he ran his typical negative 2 then I apologize. I have no faith in Beyers.

lol
hey kev, how's things?
and i'm gnawing on dinner while reading this. very entertaining.

now back to your regularly scheduled programming....

This is only my second post in the thread. I agree with BTW that this is sour grapes about a bet. I think Oracle is a very smart guy who has lost it on this particular point. I bet he regrets the personal insults about Albertrani. He is a very good trainer, perhaps top 15 in the country and he had a horse who didn't run particularly well. I have owned many horses and would love to own one who finishes second in a Grade 2.

Now let's kill this worthless thread and move on to passing on info about future runners and races.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm predicting right now that Court Folly will run something less than a 108 BSF in his next start.

Lol.. not a very long limb!!! :D

I think you are wrong and i do not apologize. So beyer wants us to believe that Court Folly ran 15 points better than anything he ever ran? Hysterical!!! Thast why these are worthless folks. Lets check out the sheet numbers.

hes an incompetent little fraud Tbred!!!

Nothing like being a man of one's word.

Jerry will give me the number if I call him ( I'm also sure Byk can get it ) but they probably haven't even done it yet.

The race was pretty fast and anyone that understands comparing relative time knows that. You don't need the actual figs to know that Songster's effort matches up reasonably well to his previous ones. It's merely a question of objectivity.

Alright, I'll let you guys take care of it....I am doing the grunt work of the TG vs Rags study, pretty interesting stuff going on there

Black, you play with TG's?

No! I believe in the accuracy of speed figures in general but they are at best a very small part of my handicapping.

They improved my handicapping 10 fold, but I have noticed I have become reliant on them, and not even looking at PP's anymore, and it has cost me

Songster went way too fast. Not only did he run the half in :44 1/5(actually :44 2/5 because the actual number was 44.38), but he was three-wide all the way around the turn. Not only that, the track was dead yesterday. Considering that he went three-wide and the track was dead, his half-mile played like a :43 3/5 on a normal track. That's just way too fast for him. He normally runs the half in :45. He's gone :44 3/5 a couple of times but that was at 7 furlongs where more of the first half-mile is run on a straightaway and not around a turn. In addition, it was at Gulfstream which was playing 1000x faster than Saratoga was playing yesterday. Songster basically ran his half-mile yesterday about 5-6 lengths faster than normal.

Anyway, Songster got very tired yesterday but what would you expect with him setting those suicide fractions.

I have no idea how good of a trainer Albertrani is, but his losing with Songster yesterday doesn't prove anything. Pletcher has probably lost 200 times with odds-on favorites. That doesn't mean anything.

I don't care to get into a long response to any part of the talk here except in one area. Tom Albertrani is neither a liar nor incompetant. He is in fact one of the most gracious, decent, humble and genuine people I've come across in the industry, and he enjoys the confidence and respect of some of the most important people in the business. And that opinion is shared by everyone with even a modicum of contact with the backstretch. I certainly hope the bile spewed above is one born of frustration over an excruciating loss and will at some point be modified or retracted. Personally, I find it as insulting and lowbrow as the swipes taken by ladbrooke at First Samurai the other day.

As an aside to Mike, what you've written here is well beneath you.

Steve,
If hes such a friend why not ask him how tight he was for that race personally? IF he tells you he had the horse as tight as he told the public he was in the DRf I will retract it, otherwise hes a stone cold liar.

Bernardini sure looked tight enough coming off a similar layoff, and he was going a lot further than Songster had to go.....I really think this colt was compromised by the trip....I really do, Mike....look how much longer he lasted in the stretch in relation to the others that contested the early pace.....he got ambushed by the short field and the fact that all riders wanted to go to the lead and Borel capitalized on it.....

Why not give the winner some credit. He ran a hell of a race.

Albertrani who trains Songster, said: "I thought he was in great position. Edgar said he responded but the other horse just outran him."

Sounds like the better horse won. Songster ran his usual nice figure, just wasn't good enough.