Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   The Charles Hatton Reading Room (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Top 25 3yo's 1987-2007 (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20438)

Indian Charlie 02-26-2008 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
housebuster was amazing.....

isn't it funny tho how some horses are remembered for things they didn't do (such as anyone listing awesome again for his 3 yo career) and then others who accomplished some tremendous things get no press at all?

i find it amazing that some people can only judge ability by looking at a resume only.

anyone with half an eye could see awesome again was a top colt.

Coach Pants 02-26-2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch
Unforunately, he's most widely known for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6M8ijJgCI

I myself was just out of college and the prior 4 years are/were/and forever will be blurred at best. I don't remember much at all about the horses from '87-'91, but unfortunately, I, like most people, do remember this vividly.

For being injured?

blackthroatedwind 02-26-2008 12:36 PM

I'll assume it was his BC as a 4YO.....and not watch. I still remember poor Jimmy Croll being interviewed leading the horse back after the race. He was such a wonderful horse that it was especially sad for things to end that way for him.

I'm actually glad I brought him up, as probably no horse in recent history properly exposes Lost in the Fog more fairly than Housebuster. While Lost in the Fog was a very nice horse, and story, and he certainly ran decently on a very consistent basis, he was nowhere close to the talent that Housebuster was....or what people with no perspective think he was. His tragic end does not change what he was on the racetrack.

NoLuvForPletch 02-26-2008 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
For being injured?

What I am saying is that more people are aware of HOUSEBUSTER because of what happened in the '91 Sprint. Only the most knowledgeable are aware of his actual accomplishments.

King Glorious 02-26-2008 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
I would say many of these people know nothing about him. I just looked a couple of his races up.....he got a 113 Beyer fig when he won the King's Bishop ( Lost in the Fog.....105 ) and lost a photo to Criminal Type in the Met Mile, beating Easy Goer, and got a 117 Beyer.

Those were two very good races. I don't think it's fair to say that Housebuster ran several races as a 3yo that DWARFED anything Fog ever did. You point out the 113 and 117 figures. Fog did earn a 116 and a 114. That's right there with Housebuster. I also give Fog extra credit for the ambitious traveling schedule he was on. I've heard you talk about the effects of constantly shipping and Fog criss-crossed the country 13 times that year and still nearly held up to the end. I'd also like to see what kind of weight assignments Housebuster had in those races and how much he was giving to his competition.

Coach Pants 02-26-2008 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch
What I am saying is that more people are aware of HOUSEBUSTER because of what happened in the '91 Sprint. Only the most knowledgeable are aware of his actual accomplishments.

Well those people need new glasses if they couldn't see the reason why he finished badly.

King Glorious 02-26-2008 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
It's unfortunate he won the majority of his races on the NoCal circuit. He'll always be knocked for that.

This is simply not true at all. Fog won 11 career races:

Northern CA-3
Arizona-1
South FL-3
Kentucky-1
NY-3

King Glorious 02-26-2008 12:44 PM

Want to think of an underrated sprinter, think of Reraise.

NoLuvForPletch 02-26-2008 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
Well those people need new glasses if they couldn't see the reason why he finished badly.

Pants you are very defensive regarding HOUSEBUSTER. I'm not knocking the horse at all. I was supporting Andy's point actually. He was an incredible talent.

At 3: Jerome H. -G1, Withers S. -G2, Sheridan S. -G3, Hutcheson S. -G3, Lafayette S. -G3, Derby Trial S. -G3, King's Bishop S. -G3, Spectacular Bid S., Swale S. -G3; 2nd Metropolitan H. -G1

The Bid 02-26-2008 12:46 PM

It would have been great to see a healthy LITF on into his 4yo year. I think he would have hushed some of the critics. All we can do is speculate how good he was, or wasnt, or how much his disease hampered his running.

Coach Pants 02-26-2008 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
This is simply not true at all. Fog won 11 career races:

Northern CA-3
Arizona-1
South FL-3
Kentucky-1
NY-3

I should've looked up his wins. I just remember him winning in NoCal and that stands out more to me than the others. But really Arizona should stick out like a sore thumb. I imagine if he was still running today he would've had wins in Washington and New Mexico.

miraja2 02-26-2008 12:50 PM

Did LITF ever defeat another G1 winner?

King Glorious 02-26-2008 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
I should've looked up his wins. I just remember him winning in NoCal and that stands out more to me than the others. But really Arizona should stick out like a sore thumb. I imagine if he was still running today he would've had wins in Washington and New Mexico.

It's a stigma that's hard to overcome. I consider El Gato Malo a Northern Cali horse even though two of his three races have been in Southern Cali. It's just interesting that a horse that won more races at Gulfstream, Churchill, Belmont, and Saratoga than in Northern Cali is still disparaged as only a Northern Cali horse.

blackthroatedwind 02-26-2008 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid
It would have been great to see a healthy LITF on into his 4yo year. I think he would have hushed some of the critics. All we can do is speculate how good he was, or wasnt, or how much his disease hampered his running.


Maybe.....and it is unfortunate. However, all we really have to go on in his 3YO year is that when he finally faced real horses he got completely drowned.

Look, I liked Lost in the Fog, he was a neat horse and I respect that he shipped all over the country and ran in many of the important spots for 3YOs. It wasn't his fault that his competition was weak. But, I think there is a canyon of difference between his actual talent and his perceived talent.

NoLuvForPletch 02-26-2008 12:54 PM

I know I'm going to be laughed off the board, but...
 
can you include a horse who won 3 of 4 races as a 3YO, and only one G1?

These are awesome to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSo-M...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiiKgJiYCDM

Was there a more anticipated return of an older horse than Ghostzapper in recent memory, besides Curlin?

King Glorious 02-26-2008 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
Did LITF ever defeat another G1 winner?

Not that I can recall. That's the only reason he's not on my list although I do believe his talent and accomplishements easily could have earned him a spot.

miraja2 02-26-2008 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
Not that I can recall. That's the only reason he's not on my list although I do believe his talent and accomplishements easily could have earned him a spot.

I left him off of my list too.
He seemed like a pretty good horse, but he never really faced anybody until the BC, and there he was swamped.
I didn't include him for the same reason I don't think that filly out in New Mexico should win HOY.

SniperSB23 02-26-2008 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
I left him off of my list too.
He seemed like a pretty good horse, but he never really faced anybody until the BC, and there he was swamped.
I didn't include him for the same reason I don't think that filly out in New Mexico should win HOY.

The big difference is LITF shipped around and went to every big 3yo sprint race there was. It wasn't his fault there was no competition. The NM filly has been kept in state bred company and dodged any real challenges. There's no comparison between them.

miraja2 02-26-2008 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
The big difference is LITF shipped around and went to every big 3yo sprint race there was. It wasn't his fault there was no competition. The NM filly has been kept in state bred company and dodged any real challenges. There's no comparison between them.

Clearly he was better than Pepper's Pride.
I wasn't attempting to compare them in terms of ability.
I was just trying to make the point that I like to see horses actually beat some horse that can run before I would include the animal in a list of this nature.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.