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-   International Racing (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   Godolphin/Darley article (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15760)

NoChanceToDance 08-08-2007 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by my miss storm cat
Evidence? Evidence of what exactly?

These are ALL opinions.

You think you have evidence because you posted an article?

This is turning into tales of the absurd now.
No, not the article but the fact that most of the horses they buy turn out to be nags, but for what reason? They cannot train?

Okay, opinions, whatever, but they are opinions that add up. I cannot see how the information i am told by employees is opinion, though? They know what is going on, they know the horses. We don't.

I don't want to fight.

I'm very passionate about this, i have seen far too many good horses ruined by them (seemingly) and it is damaging racing over here. I know it is different in the States because as far as i know they are doing pretty well with the few horses in training over there. Although i'm getting fed up with asking how Zada Belle is and what is happening with Utopia?

You have to understand that.

my miss storm cat 08-08-2007 04:20 PM
On Utopia.....

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...ghlight=utopia

NoChanceToDance 08-08-2007 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by my miss storm cat
Thanks for that.

He was so impressive in Dubai, he could be very special in America.

ArlJim78 08-08-2007 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
No, not the article but the fact that most of the horses they buy turn out to be nags, but for what reason? They cannot train?

Okay, opinions, whatever, but they are opinions that add up. I cannot see how the information i am told by employees is opinion, though? They know what is going on, they know the horses. We don't.

I don't want to fight.

I'm very passionate about this, i have seen far too many good horses ruined by them (seemingly) and it is damaging racing over here. I know it is different in the States because as far as i know they are doing pretty well with the few horses in training over there. Although i'm getting fed up with asking how Zada Belle is and what is happening with Utopia?

You have to understand that.
its all opinions and hearsay. even if it came from a friend and you believe it, that doesn't make it a fact. one or two people making off the cuff remarks about a large operation doesn't constitute any like factual data. its hearsay.
believe it if you want but don't come on here in a condescending tone like you have all the facts. and certainly don't attempt to make fun of the opinions of others on here that politely and passionately disagree. they believe in what they are saying also. you've made your point, you don't anything about Godolphin.

Sightseek 08-08-2007 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
To my recollection, this is the longest running thread in which one guy is taking on the universe.

Good job, NCTD.
PG1985 fought gallantly many a time.

NoChanceToDance 08-08-2007 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
its all opinions and hearsay. even if it came from a friend and you believe it, that doesn't make it a fact. one or two people making off the cuff remarks about a large operation doesn't constitute any like factual data. its hearsay.
believe it if you want but don't come on here in a condescending tone like you have all the facts. and certainly don't attempt to make fun of the opinions of others on here that politely and passionately disagree. they believe in what they are saying also. you've made your point, you don't anything about Godolphin.
That is fair enough.

I believe what they have to say, and i know that they are much better informed than any of us.

These two have probably sat on every horse that has been through the Godolphin operation and are very good horsemen, so they know when people are failing to train racehorses properly. They just do as they're told, if they give their opinion that differs from the 'boss' or crisford they can expect to be riding the crap horses for a while.

Saeed is a great horseman, also, and when things go wrong people get on his back, but in reality, he does very little there, but he deserves a more pominant role.

There is a word for people being afraid of change, and i think this word relates to Godolphin.

They need to change or else they will continue to struggle.

I apologise for my hot headed nature. This is something i am very passionate about, i'm just sick of them ruining good horses they have purchased.

NoChanceToDance 08-08-2007 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
To my recollection, this is the longest running thread in which one guy is taking on the universe.

Good job, NCTD.

Not something to be proud of, i don't think.

I'm not a person to give up on anything. I have been taking on many different issues today, mostly with our local authorities, now they really make me mad :D

gallant bloom 08-10-2007 01:36 PM
nc2d we are all
very lucky to
have u here
since u know
it all.

NoChanceToDance 08-10-2007 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallant bloom
nc2d we are all
very lucky to
have u here
since u know
it all.
I love the sarcasm........ seriously though, i wish you would come back and post here.

my miss storm cat 08-10-2007 02:11 PM
If you two are gonna start up, do it somewhere else.

I know where this is going.....

NoChanceToDance 08-10-2007 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by my miss storm cat
If you two are gonna start up, do it somewhere else.

I know where this is going.....
apologies....... i was under the impression me and gallant were friends...... looks like i was wide of the mark again.

my miss storm cat 08-10-2007 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
apologies....... i was under the impression me and gallant were friends...... looks like i was wide of the mark again.
Debating is fine, sarcasm is fine, fighting is fine but when you two start up and it begins to get personal? I know it's gonna turn into a big problem and I can't be here all day to babysit so I just wanted BOTH of you to get the message.

my miss storm cat 08-13-2007 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
A well written post.

From what i have been told from good friends who are employees and ex employees at Godolphin all i can gather from the article is that it is well informed in many areas.

These people would not lie to me, which is why i am calling it truth.

As you say, the debate will be continued time and time again. I don't like the way they buy the competition time after time when it isn't working for them. Buying success can work within reason, but not to the extent they are doing it. Especially when the horses they buy mid way through their racing career obviously don't adapt well to their training methods (well, that is the only reason i can suggest). Think of all of the good horses they have purchased that have since either been injured or seriously lost their form. Hinterland, Imperial Stride, Best name, Best Alibi, Vista Bella, Caradak, Court Masterpiece, Dijeerr, Kirklees, Palace Episode, The Geezer, Opera Cape, Mount Hadley, Short Skirt, Rallying Cry, Silca's Sister, Windsor Knot....... there are more. All of these have been purchased or transfered to Godolphin within the last few years, and you cannot say that all of these are down to bad luck.

Now compare that with horses they have paid huge amounts for that they have actually had success with over the past few years....... the only few i can think of are Daylami, Ramonti, Stage Gift and maybe include Utopia on that list but i've heard nothing about him since he won in the U.S (anyone know anything??).

Now, if that doesn't suggest something is wrong with their training techniques, i don't know what does.

Maybe it's Dubai, maybe horses cannot cope with shipping back and forth there every year for a few months?

There is something wrong somewhere, and i'm fed up of seeing these good horses disappearing off the face of the earth as soon as they come into the care of Godolphin.
Not to go through every horse on your list, but i noticed that Palace Episode is entered at Saratoga on Wednesday.

NoChanceToDance 08-14-2007 06:37 AM
Another $3million down the drain?

Last night a colt named Al Naahadth made his long awaited debut (there had been quite a few 'noises' in Newmarket about him), he was very well bet to back the high opinion up...... and he was beaten 16 lengths out of sight. The write up from the Racing Post says it all:

There would have been some glum faces in Dubai as they tried to come to terms with the abysmal debut of the well-backed Al Naahadth, who cost a staggering $3m as a yearling. By Storm Cat out of a Breeders' Cup Distaff winner, his looks matched his pedigree, but he was quickly under pressure and showed no promise whatsoever.

His pedigree is beautiful (storm cat - Ajina). I don't suppose anyone saw him go through the sale a couple of years ago?? He must have been some looker.

Maybe greeness, but it was a weak maiden and the Godolphin second string finished miles in front of him. We shall see what happens next time before making too much out of this.

SniperSB23 08-14-2007 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
Another $3million down the drain?

Last night a colt named Al Naahadth made his long awaited debut (there had been quite a few 'noises' in Newmarket about him), he was very well bet to back the high opinion up...... and he was beaten 16 lengths out of sight. The write up from the Racing Post says it all:

There would have been some glum faces in Dubai as they tried to come to terms with the abysmal debut of the well-backed Al Naahadth, who cost a staggering $3m as a yearling. By Storm Cat out of a Breeders' Cup Distaff winner, his looks matched his pedigree, but he was quickly under pressure and showed no promise whatsoever.

His pedigree is beautiful (storm cat - Ajina). I don't suppose anyone saw him go through the sale a couple of years ago?? He must have been some looker.

Maybe greeness, but it was a weak maiden and the Godolphin second string finished miles in front of him. We shall see what happens next time before making too much out of this.
Seriously! He's had as much success through one start as Bernardini had.

_ed_ 08-14-2007 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
but he was quickly under pressure and showed no promise whatsoever.
Ouch!

my miss storm cat 08-14-2007 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
Another $3million down the drain?

Last night a colt named Al Naahadth made his long awaited debut (there had been quite a few 'noises' in Newmarket about him), he was very well bet to back the high opinion up...... and he was beaten 16 lengths out of sight. The write up from the Racing Post says it all:

There would have been some glum faces in Dubai as they tried to come to terms with the abysmal debut of the well-backed Al Naahadth, who cost a staggering $3m as a yearling. By Storm Cat out of a Breeders' Cup Distaff winner, his looks matched his pedigree, but he was quickly under pressure and showed no promise whatsoever.

His pedigree is beautiful (storm cat - Ajina). I don't suppose anyone saw him go through the sale a couple of years ago?? He must have been some looker.

Maybe greeness, but it was a weak maiden and the Godolphin second string finished miles in front of him. We shall see what happens next time before making too much out of this.
Wasn't Finsceal Beo kinda far back in this race that Miss Beatrix won so brilliantly?

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...t=miss+beatrix

My point is that to tell me a horse was beaten doesn't say much.

"Showed no promise"? That's one persons opinion based on one day, one race.

I think the only thing this shows me is that you really do believe everything you read.

ELA 08-14-2007 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
Another $3million down the drain?

Last night a colt named Al Naahadth made his long awaited debut (there had been quite a few 'noises' in Newmarket about him), he was very well bet to back the high opinion up...... and he was beaten 16 lengths out of sight. The write up from the Racing Post says it all:

There would have been some glum faces in Dubai as they tried to come to terms with the abysmal debut of the well-backed Al Naahadth, who cost a staggering $3m as a yearling. By Storm Cat out of a Breeders' Cup Distaff winner, his looks matched his pedigree, but he was quickly under pressure and showed no promise whatsoever.

His pedigree is beautiful (storm cat - Ajina). I don't suppose anyone saw him go through the sale a couple of years ago?? He must have been some looker.

Maybe greeness, but it was a weak maiden and the Godolphin second string finished miles in front of him. We shall see what happens next time before making too much out of this.
No offense, however it seems that you've already made plenty out of this -- and more. As we all know, the majority of 7 digit yearlings don't pan out. So what? As I said before, to sit in judgement with this type of exercise and with this type of critique is an exercise in futility at best. None of us have any idea of the methodology going on here. Maybe they were looking to buy the 5 most expensive sons of Storm Cat because of some cycle-bred theory . . . who knows! I don't and it doesn't matter. This is not an owner stepping up and buying a $3m son of Storm Cat. There is a massively global, big picture situation going on and as such the criticism flows much easier.

Eric

ArlJim78 08-14-2007 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
We shall see what happens next time before making too much out of this.
well now if you believed that you wouldn't have made this post talking about the glum faces in Dubai.

the first race is hard to draw any conclusions from. besides, if we look around there are plenty of examples of highpriced busts, if that is what this one turns out to be.


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