I don't trust those figures for that race. IMO, they were too high based on the final time of the race.

beyers were right for all his others, but not this one?

Don't you get it yet Zieg? Here is how it works. If they don't like a horse, lets say St Liam, when he gets beat shipping to another track, he ran his A race but he just wasnt good enough and his other figures were too high.
When a horse they like gets beat, he definitely didn't run his A race and they gave him a figure too low to boot.
In other words when they are right they are right, and when they are wrong they are right also.
Come on Zieg, get with the program!!!!!!
I mean, the fact that his internal fractions were the same as his other races, and that those fractions didn't get him an easy perfect trip with a loose lead or clear stalking position is absolutely irrelevent!!!!!
I'm very disapppointed in you Zieg, trying to use common sense and logic will get you absolutely nowhere in arguing affairs of the heart. Now go sniff some paint thinner, knock a few dozen points off your iq, and get back to us.

Well said! :cool:
No problem, we'll agree to disagree.

Ummmm no. Let's not call it a draw. Invasor beat Bernardini. We don't need to call it a draw. As for your comparison to Slew.....that is FAR from a draw.

classic oracle. thank you -- this is why i continue to risk your wrath and the embarassment that often follows several years later -- because every now and then i get to read a post like this.

made work enjoyable for a few minutes :)

Dude you are a good guy, I especially liked your letter to the DRF. When we are jawing horses, it ain't personal, not just with you but with anyone.

i know you're just ****ing around most the time -- but it certainly doesn't make it any more fun to get publically embarrassed by you on the few occasions when you are, in fact, right.

i've also been enjoying your chronicaling of your kent d. vs. channing hill mistake. how many times has something like that happened to me. i feel the same way about larry sterling jr in chicago -- how many times have my friends or i been LSJ-ed at the track as if he singlehandedly stole your money? I can't even begin to count.

lol

oracle, you truly did make me laugh out loud.

things is, bernardini ran his same race. but the competition wasn't the same. that's why he didn't draw away, didn't make an easy lead, and didn't romp home. he didn't look worse, he looked the same. but the gap was narrowed because his competition was more talented. he ran the same time-wise as his jcgc, and ran the same figures he's been running all year.

i have NEVER knocked bernardini. not once ever. just want to remind everyone of that fact before anyone tries to suggest i've always been down on him. i thought he was a really good colt. but not the best i've seen in years, the jury is out on whether he was the best of the bunch THIS year. he should and will win the eclipse, imo that's a given.. buthe is not a great. if he was, than what about invasor, who beat him?
also, figure-wise, discreet cat was faster this year than his stable-mate. after all, he was the go-to guy if for some reason bernardini couldn't run. that speaks volumes about how truly good they think he is.

Happened again in the last race yesterday, on the phone with a friend who was driving and wanted to get the call of the last race at the Big A as he played the same play as me in the pik-3. Went 7 deep because we were against the fave Bronxdale and I thought the race was a chaos race.
On the turn for home you could see it was down to two horses, Bonds horse and the longest payout we had who was the 12 Pat kelly's horse who was paying 154 for every buck in the pik-3. We used Bond only on mud breeding but his two year record with firsters before yesterday was 2%, I **** you not. So they are on the turn and I'm calling the race for my friend and say excitedly " YES!! here comes Kelly's horse, the longest one we have!!!!! and Bond's horse HAS TO QUIT!! he never wins with firsters!!! About two seconds later Bond's horse kicks away, followed by a cursing and swearing fit in stereo by both of us.

YOU CURSED??????IMPOSSIBLE

I know you find it hard to believe, but i swore when the horse trained by the guy who was 2% with firsters over two years kicked away from the best payout. Actually it was more a fit about sloped foreheads and crossed eyes.

My landlord and I share a house, I have the upstairs with a private entrance that was built in, and she lives downstairs. Shes my age, a teacher at Shenendehowa. Floors are just regular floors,not real thick, its a house not an apartment building.
When I first moved in she heard a few cursing fits and called me up and askewd if things were ok, I laughed and said fine and explained about watching races and such. She'll hear a yahoo once in a while and call up and say shes raising the rent.

your crudeness at it's best.

the best day I had at Arlington was getting LSJ'ed twice in one day, and I suppose you could have said three times.

1.He ran his horse up into the back of another instead of around when his horse was clearly about 4 lengths the best and had about 3 paths worth of room to the outside to switch into, then claimed foul, and got laughed at by everyone within my earshot.
2.Later he was DQ'ed aboard a roughly 6 length winner for being a jackass 3/8 out.
3.And even later, rode another terrible race and should have been DQ'ed but somehow by the grace of racing gods was not. He literally nearly knocked the horse inside him over the rail at about the sixteenth pole. It was the most obvious DQ I have likely ever seen that somehow didn't get taken down.

All in a day's work for LSJ I suppose -- though then again who's the dumbass? I had his horse in all three of those

Ghostzapper would have blown Slew off the map. Pure and simple. Slew was never very fast.

Bernardini was a complete fraud. JC had to belt the helll out of him because Bernardini couldn't handle decent fractions. JC put him right where he needed to be. It was a perfect ride and Bernardini couldn't cut it.

It's a different story being a hero off 1:13 like the Bernardinians spouted after the Travers.

Barbaro would have eaten Bernardini alive.

Show me where and when Slew was actually faster than Ghostzapper. Show me. At the same age and at the same distance. Or any age and any distance.

Show me.

I'm totally with that.

listen buddy, i agree with some of the stuff you said about bernardini but this nonsense needs to stop.
what would happen if ghostzapper met slew? both of those horses were so great that it is difficult to know what would happen, but i find it hard to believe that slew would be "blown off the map." ghostzapper didn't blow saint liam off the map. do you really think saint liam is that much better than slew? that seems a bit odd to me.

You are from the same planet as Ghostzapper.