I have maintained for years that racing in this country is more or less doomed because of incompetent leadership and greed. That leadership isnt restricted to those within racing nor is the greed. The truth is no one HAS to own a horse and no one HAS to bet on a horse and no one HAS to breed horses.

I dont think people realize how few people are actually making any significant money on the horsemen's side WITH the slot money.

How long before we run out of people willing to pay 500K for an animal that on average doesn't earn enough to even cover training costs?

Amazingly enough they are a resilient group

Using racing for taxation advantages plays a role as well. Take those away and you will see a lot fewer owners ponying up big money.

Did I ask why? I don't think so. I asked if Arlington gets slots money.

I don't mind discussing the reasons, I'm just saying most bettors/fans don't care about the why. Honestly, why should they?

Do you really think he is in on those decisions these days?

But with churn, the difference isn't near as great as your post would make it seem.

It adds up to over 1100 for the season, 40 days for two seats in the clubhouse.
This was announced that it would also be raised.

As far as $5 for the program that's for my wife, the cost may be less but I wouldn't know I never got any change.

They should care because it matters. I dont expect anyone to like paying more especially when they throw the "better experience" nonsense at you with absolutely no detail as to what that entails. But it is like saying that NBA fans should ignore the salary cap when talking potential trades.

Hell Kay more or less admits what they are doing here.

Personally I'd be for no charge for admission at Belmont and an upcharge for "premium" area's but NYRA can't do that because the state wont let them give the gate away. Not to mention they need the extra revenue to make the books balance for the 2014 budget. This board is acting in the short term because for most of them that is all there is going to be. If the state was serious about growing racing, Kay and this board wouldnt be in charge.

Essentially Cuomo is the villan here, Skolrton is the hatchet man and Kay is Baghdad Bob

Of course it is. They get 100% of the $24 minus state taxes. They get a far lesser amount regardless of the churn in the pools.

Most NBA fans don't understand the cap, and most racing fans don't care who the villain is.

Chuck...who is making money in your opinion? Owners, vets, trainers, breeders, bloodstock agents, pinhookers or others I haven't mentioned?

:tro:

A very small % of each. Everyone sees Pletcher or Jacobson or Ness winning races all the time or horses selling for $1 million dollars at the sales but they are a minute % of the total. The economics of the sport on the horse side are really insane. Even at places where slot money is added to purses you still have a large % of horses losing money.

However for people that do understand these things (and pretty much everyone who has posted in this thread gets it or should get it), having a conversation while readily ignoring the political issues is pointless.

Think about why Harden got traded. Can you have a legitimate conversation about that topic without talking about the salary cap implications that precipitated it? This isnt much different.

So anyone capable of abstract thought should simply go along with the mob that isn't interested in or capable of comprehending the motivating factors.. Got it.

I figured it had to be Saratoga. I think that Saratoga and Keeneland are the exceptions to the rule where the demand is greater than the supply.

That isn't what I am saying at all. Even people that understand the WHY don't have to agree with it. Obviously many don't, judging by the board meeting and the Crist article, and several others I've seen from people that do understand.

I was just making the point that 95% or more of the customers that go to Belmont or Saratoga won't know why this happened. When prices go up, consumers make a decision to either still buy, buy less, or buy none at all. The justification of the price raise is not a major factor in the decision for most people.

Like I said, lets see what happens. I think we'll see another decline in attendance at Saratoga. I hope I'm wrong.

Yeah Tolls is the problem.....they don't have them in other states.

30 years ago........pay $7.50 hour 12 pack of michelob $4.99 Saratoga admission $2

now $30/hour..............12 pack michelob $8.99 saratoga admission $3.00


Beer and Saratoga are the 2 biggest bargains in history.

since when?

this was sarcasm....tolls are everywhere.they are a good thing

gotcha. mea culpa

There aren't any here in SoCal...

I must say this thread has legs. And lots of opinions.

All four Louisiana tracks are racinos. Before slots, all charged admission. Today, with two exceptions, admission to FG, LaD, DeD, & Evg is free. CDI who owns FG charges admission for Louisiana Derby Day ($5) and twilight racing cards ($5-10).

Casino side has free drinks & comps. Racing side has cash bar & limited/no comps. These operations are owned by Boyd's Gaming (DeD & Evg) & Caesar's (LaD) as well as aforementioned CDI. Racino model enhances purses which favors horsemen - owners, trainers & jockeys. Horseplayer gets nothing.

Therefore, I would suggest that Aqueduct is like DeD/Evg/LaD and should offer free admission. Belmont is like FG and should charge admission on 'event' days only.

Saratoga is destination-type property that offers unique blend of quality racing, longevity/history/tradition, and scarcity. Scarcity in number of racing dates & limited supply of preferred seats. Professional sports and elite college football programs once rewarded season ticket holders for loyalty. Today, they monetize that transaction and extract value through seat licenses, athletic foundations, and other contribution channels. Some form of seat license would probably generate much more than $250,000 that NYRA has targeted.

In summary, I see this as three separate situations that require three entirely different solutions.

.....damn, they still make that swill.

I know that the comparison with other sports has flaws but I dont think people realize how insanely expensive it is to go to sporting events.

TCI is a cost index using the following criteria:

Team Marketing Report uses “non-premium” season ticket pricing for its survey. That excludes club seats, suites and floor seats.

The Fan Cost Index (FCI) comprises the price of four average-price tickets, two cheapest beers, four cheapest soft drinks, four hot dogs, parking for one car, two game programs and two least-expensive, adult-size hats.

The average Fan Cost Index (FCI) number, the cost to take a family of four to an NBA game, is up 3.5 percent to $326.60.

The Knicks, which had a horrid start to the season in refurbished Madison Square Garden, lead the NBA in average ticket price ($123.22, a 4.9 percent increase) and FCI® price ($643.78).

i don't drive on any of them either but when i visit san diego, the 73 is an option. i leave early to avoid traffic instead.

it's absolutely ridiculous what it costs to go see games. hockey is even starting to get up there, which is a shame. but right now, i still think it's worth it. unlike football, hockey is best watched live. i don't plan to go to another college or pro football game EVER-especially if it's televised. takes too long, fans are too rude, food is expensive-and tastes like garbage.

I have seen it all now, comparing wagering at horse races to going to say the NFL games.

If there ever was an apples and oranges comparison that would be it.

I suppose if the crowd sat their with ipads and could wager on who hits the next basket, minus 20% of course, then it would make a little bit of a comparison.

I'm curious.....do people get to bring food and beverages, including beer, into NFL games?

I come from an era when I used to attend Dodger (Brooklyn) games for the price of a few ice-cream cup lids, and Knicks and Rangers games for $.50 with my high school GO card. To say I've been priced out of attending major league sports games now is the understatement of the year. Can't actually remember the last ticket I bought; probably 30 years ago.

It's a really bad comparison.. How much does it cost to go to a casino, and what are the costs of food and beverage in a casino is a much fairer comparison.

12/17 on the Inner in Ozone Park is hardly the mecca. How many days a year could Far Hills be successful without para mutual wagering... 4?

Yes, at least at Diamondback games you can buy water and peanuts outside and bring it in, as long as you dont open them before entering.

i remember going to my first Belmont Stakes and some guys were bringing cases of beer on their kids wagons into the facility........back in the early eighties we used to bring in an ice chest full of adult beverages into the infield at santa anita. i think it was halted due to idiots getting hammered and causing problems.

The Diamondbacks are now in the NFL?

I know you can't spell Greg....but up until now I had assumed you could read:D

Just pointing out that there are some places that are reasonable.

You dont need an emoticon, I know what you were thinking.

I must say that me and my brother saved thousands of dollars in beer by being allowed to drink a case and a half of our own Bass or Sammy Smith's every day for years. A hundred extra bucks a day to bet with is a big difference. That's why Saratoga is such great value. I never liked paying admission to the track, but never minded paying it at Saratoga. Though they didn't get the extra deuce for the clubhouse stamp. That was always fun, escaping the deuce.

http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/blog...direction-play

On another note, allowing people to bring in beer is pretty silly IMO. You want to make money, charge a reasonable price for beer.

No alcohol ever and the food policy according to the Steeler/NFL website.
This from the Steeler website:

Food items such as small sandwiches, chips, pretzels, etc. are permitted in as long as they are in clear Ziploc plastic bags. No brown bags or plastic grocery store bags are permitted. You may also bring water, juice, pop, etc. as long as it is in a plastic bottle, 24 oz. or less and must have its original factory seal.


Purses, backpacks, diaper bags etc... are no longer allowed. Everything you do bring has to be in a see through plastic bag, which they conveniently sell for $10-$12. Season ticket holders were given one for each ticket they have. The dimensions of the bag are12"x6"x12". The first Steeler game this year a girl who sits in our section did not know the rule. She hid her purse in a bush near the entrance. She said there were about 30 other purses already hidden. The purse was still there after the game.