95 Beyer for now.

if you question rachels, then you must automatically question zenyattas competition, as she faced some of those same 'mules' in the classic. oh, but you don't want to consider that side of the argument, do you? but, keep worrying about '09, which is in the books. i'll keep looking forward to what's next-blame in the jcgc, qr in the woodward.

It was a rarity and it was historic and it was fabulous. But how good was it? I feel like too much is made of the names on the races and the sexes of the horses she beat (in the case of the Woodward, the sexes and ages). She held off Mine that Bird and he's not won a race since and has one win in nearly two years. She beat Macho Again and Bullsbay but then every 3yo with a pulse beat them last year and beat them worse than she did. She was absolutely dominant against Summer Bird and that, for my money, was her top performance and the race that told me she was a really good one. I say we make too much out of the ages and sexes thing because we should be judging them by the quality of the horses beaten, not the age or sex. Take Serena's Song. She rarely gets mentioned but she beat 3yo males twice and even though she didn't beat older males, she did beat older Heavenly Prize and Lakeway in the Beldame. They were females but I'd take them over Macho Again and Bullsbay as tougher competition. Winning Colors beat a field of males that was probably 20x tougher in the Derby than Rachel did in the Preakness. One of them won the Cigar against older and another ran second in the BC Classic. She also beat them in the SA Derby. Instead of facing older males later, she was losing twice (by 3/4 length and then by a nose) to Personal Ensign. So Rachel was historic for beating Macho Again by a nose and Winning Colors is an afterthought for losing to Personal Ensign by one. Lost among all of the talk is how close we came to never seeing Rachel do any of this stuff. If she isn't sold to Jackson before the Preakness, her previous owner didn't want to run her against males. Would that mean that she would have somehow been less talented? Of course not. We were just lucky that she was put into the hands of someone that wanted to test her. If Winning Colors or Serena's Song weren't trained by Lukas, we may not have ever gotten a chance to see how they fared against the boys but it wouldn't mean they were any less talented than they were. A lot of what horses accomplish is not always solely based on how good they are but also on opportunity and timing. Rachel got lucky in that of the horses generally considered the top 5-6 3yos last year (Quality Road, Blame, Old Fashioned, The Pamplemousse, I Want Revenge, and Summer Bird), she only had to face one of them. None of that's her fault and of course she still had to go out and win the races and she proved herself as a top class horse by doing so and she earned HOY. But please, consider the quality of the competition faced more than the age and sex when talking about her season as one of the all-time greatest.

:rolleyes:


Overall, the field Z faced in the BCC was light-years ahead of anything RA lined up against last year.



Me too ... 19

lol light years?

no it wasn't. they were comparable fields. you wanting the classic to be tougher, a higher standard, doesn't make it so.

and yeah, i hope zenyatta ties pepper's pride. no one wants the record to be held exclusively by a horse that only raced in new mexico.

In a statement, Jess Jackson, co-owner of Rachel Alexandra, said: “We are disappointed in the result, as we are sure her countless fans are, but we are certainly not disappointed in her. She is still a superstar in our hearts and minds. The old sports adage applies ... on any given Sunday, anything can happen.”

Her trainer Steve Asmussen, said he and Jackson would evaluate Rachel Alexandra's condition before making a decision on where she would race next.

"We want to evaluate who we are and who she is and where she’s at. We’re just worried about her well-being,” he said somewhat cryptically.



i've got a bad feeling about her future racing career. i hope today wasn't her last hurrah.

After chewing on it several hours, I think considering everything that happened this year and last year, they should still go to the BCC. I dont think she will win, but I think she should have a chance to take down Zenyatta.

:rolleyes:

They certainly have run a pretty weak campaign. So perhaps you are right in saying that they believe (as you and others do) that she is significantly worse than last year. Personally, I don't see it.
Her performances last year were overrated by many.
Her performances this year are being underrated by many.

Not every winning performance is outstanding and not every second place performance is a barrel of crap. If you look at her last few races this year (including today's) I don't see how it puts her that much behind where she was last year. She wasn't Ruffian last year, no matter how much some people wanted her to be, and she isn't a pile of poo this year.....no matter how much Zenyatta's legions of worshipers might want her to be.

The first quarter was too fast. LAT came at Rachel hammer and tong. Rachel didn't win, but she made LAT yell uncle. Persistently was sitting chilly stalking the pace, Alan knew when to open up. It was devastating to see Rachel's lead dwindle to nothing. That final 1/16 was run in slow motion - she was barely lifting her feet off the ground, but she kept running on heart aand class alone.

And, I don't see anything wrong with the ride Calvin gave her. The issue about the use of the whip is a non-issue. It's a padded whip that she barely felt.

Rachel - you always perform like a champion, and today was no exception. Even in defeat, you are amazing. And, as this tired warrior was walking slowly back to the barn, the crowd gave her a well-deserved standing ovation.

On to the BC Distaff? (or whatever they are now calling it)

Why don't they just put the poor horsey in a retirement home?

At least RA's connections moved out of their comfort zone and ran RA at a distance that wasn't going to be her best. They could have run her in the Molly Pitcher instead and then pointed for the Beldame.

I've been pretty busy today.


I guess from reading here that Rachel Alexandra did not win in a short field that most here seemed to think was a walkover?

The winner paid $45?


For anyone who played exactas with the field with Rachel on the bottom, the $8 wager returned $94.00?



NEVER would have guessed that Rachel Alexandra would hit the board in a five horse field and still the trifecta would pay $228.


Now I have a better understanding of how Chicago/Arkansas/Bill's Wife Hillary Clinton became a US Senator from New York.

So let's see, you know nothing about the race, but you still think it appropriate to deride everyone who didn't see the obvious $45 winner that had a career top BSF of 85 and hadn't developed a step since 2008. Even for a redboarder, that's lame.

that's it? wow, i think i see the light. you're so right, they are light years ahead of the horses rachel faced last year. you've convinced me, just by a timely use of the :rolleyes: emoticon. gee, thanks smooth operator.

When watching the replay of yesterday's race, you could see quite visibly Rachel shortening stride once she hit the final 1/8th pole, I would term Persistently's race more as outlasting the competition, rather than running down the opposition, It was an okay race, but I wasn't particularily impressed with anyone's race yesterday.

She was an 80/1 shot on paper. Two wildly superior horses with similar running styles - and she was only the 2nd best horse of the remaining three. She was truly no great bargain at 69/1 even knowing the two favorites might hook up hard because Life At Ten had nothing to gain from finishing 2nd.

I didn't look yesterday - but I'd be curious to know what she was trading at to hit the board if you saw it.

Just thinking about Zenyatta for a second - has there ever been a horse who's made the HOF without ever running at Belmont, Saratoga, or Churchill? Just curious.

Wait...I thought RA never faced Zenyatta.:confused:

Native Diver ?

Did Swaps ever venture to NY?

I was just looking at the win pool to be honest but Ill get you the place pool info when I get the info - though it was 2 places only rather than 3.

I had a nightmare betting the race. I was all set to go against Rachel in it. Instead of laying Rachel at 1.56 (she drifted to 1.8 just before off time!), I thought Id be very cute and back heavy on Life at Ten at 3.65 and light on Miss Singhsix at 15 and ignore the two rank outsiders. That came back to bite me big time.

Life At Ten was a really bad play in there for the simple fact that she was in a lose/lose. If her rider relaxed her off of RA - she likely finishes 2nd by 4 lengths to RA. If she hooks RA - she has to do it from the outside - which is a total death sentance.

On paper the BCC field was better than what RA faced and light years better than anything Zenyatta has faced in the last 2 years. That's on paper, however, and the race was won on plastic. Who knows what would have happened on a fast dirt track- we know Zenyatta would have scratched if not fast- but you can't just look at the likes of the Euros and Gio and talk about their mere presence making the quality of racing better. If they were on grass its a different story for those. I also wouldn't judge Summer Bird on the basis of that plastic track effort. That was a heck of a nice colt during the summer/ fall campaign, so an unfamiliar surface after a long year doesn't tell the tale. Call him the worst Belmont/Travers winner ever if you will, but that's a tag most any would take. In between those, he was crushed by that filly..
As for Rachel - clearly not the same horse. Even the die hards who pointed to good times in earlier losses have little to look at this time. Some are excusing it saying she dueled, but last year she dueled in quicker fractions and won the Preakness and Woodward. I'll admit last year wasn't the greatest group of 3yo ever assembled, but you don't win 100+ year old classics like the KY Oaks by 20 lengths or leave a trail of records without showing greatness. Spectacular Bid and Ruffian didn't beat much but they stopped the clock faster than anyone had ever done on more than one occasion.

Well said TG...

How was Summer Bird even close to being the worst Belmont/Travers winner ever?

his inclusion in the classic helps make it a good field...those other races, not so much. makes perfect sense, doesn't it? :D

He was close. His old man is the worst to win both.

By the time she retires (if all goes to plan) Z will have run in the BCC at Churchill. I'd have to search for an answer to the question, though I imagine it's quite probably "yes."

Actually I guess I'm just PO'd at myself.

I tried to beat Rachel with my plays in her prior race.

Yesterday an $18 tri box with Rachel and the field returned $228.

$16 exacta boxes with Rachel and the field returned $94.

I find it freaking amazing that the exotic wagers were so top loaded.

And po'd I missed it.

Most of Secretariat's glorious 21 races were on the "island" of New York State.

He ventured to Kentucky once, New Jersey twice and Maryland twice.

His last race was in Toronto, just a stone's throw from Finger Lakes.

It is yes.

Ancient Title , I believe never left California and is in, Pan Zareta only ran in the Midwest and showed up at Jamaica .

I believe Paseana never went to Churchill, Belmont or Saratoga, ditto Miesque and All Along ...

There probably are more ...

I believe Secretariat also ran at Arlington, 3 weeks after the Belmont.
In his HOY season as a 4 yr. old, Swaps ran in the midwest and in Florida

Paseana definitely ran in NY at some point.

In no way am I saying that. I think he was a really good colt on dirt through the spring and summer, but his failure on plastic seems to validate the lack of competition argument for those wanting to discredit RA's wins.

Ancient Title won the 1975 Whitney and raced at Belmont in the Fall in the Marlboro Cup against Wajima, Forego, and Foolish Pleasure ( among others ). He probably also ran in the Governor's Cup at Belmont as well.

Haskell was merely a prep race for SB.

He no doubt would've handled the overrated filly in the Travers...

remember, i told you to save that money until sunday...i did, but i did not have persistently......

Thanks---I was going by memory--not always accurate .

Hey, Smooth Operator since your ran against nothing horse didnt win HOY last year I see you are on here trying to lock up your own award by the end of August. You've done it!!! Here is your trophy for DOUCHE BAG PHUCKING A$$ HOLE OF THE YEAR AWARD :tro::tro: shine it up and put it on the mantle for all to see. While Rachel was running against the grain this year what was your take on all 30k claimers mare doing this year beside hiding out in Cali again? Nothing. Hopefully you will be run off the board after Zenyatta finally faces some competition on a real surface at CD in November and is soundly beaten. Only of course after she has taken down Peppers Pride for that elusive win streak title.