They are taking show betting? With a horse who is 1-10 on the morning line?

Meet the 2010 Apple Blossom group that Zenyatta beat:













To be fair ... Zenyatta did have to carry 123lbs - and give a massive 3 to 6 pound weight break away to these fine runners.

Yes, she has nothing at all to prove as a dirt horse. After all - she's won on it twice. Once against Brownie Points .. and once against whats posted above.

And she's beaten several worse fields in California - than what she faced in the Apple Blossom .. but the difference is that no one doubts her ability as an all-time great American rubber horse.

DOug why are you wasting your time with this? Its one of your biggest bullshit, WORSE ARGUMENTS EVER. She traveled, why does it matter who she beat? It was a G1, a race with SOLID HISTORY, anyone ANYONE COULD HAVE SHOWN UP, and NO ON DID. Its really bothers me that you continue with this crap argument.

Joe, do you think she's the best female dirt horse of all-time?

No I said a few weeks ago, I thought horses like Banshee Breeze, Beautiful Pleasure and Azeri were as good, if not better. I really believe the Icon Project we saw last summer would have beat both of them at 10f, but in the question who is better Rachel or Z, I think its CLEARLY Z.

:zz:

Zenyatta would be lucky to beat Life At Ten or Unrivelled Belle on dirt.

Thats not true, and if your serious I have no respect for you anymore. Who knows if your ever serious though.

If Dance To My Tune had faced her at Presque Isle instead of Santa Anita .. she'd have beat Zenyatta.

Ok Doug... Keep posting your pps. Z's connections made it clear they were going to Oaklawn, whos fault is it NO ONE SHOWED UP FOR THAT GRADE 1 ON DIRT? My biggest question about Rachel last year has nothing to do with Z, because I know Z would have beat her... Its what happens if Rachel runs in the Travers or Personal Ensign? Im pretty sure she gets beat in either spot.

It's pretty funny how much more of a Zenyattard/Polytard you've become since cozying up with TFM.

Incestuous.

He looks very handsome.

WRONG.

Jess Jackson passed on a $5 million purse because he's not exactly a shrewd handicapper nor a good sportsman.


Probably gets beat in the Personal Ensign - probably wins the Travers.

There's a lot you can do with hypotheticals - what if Nashoba's Key doesn't die in a stall accident? All of her synthetic races were on par with Zenyatta's and she was also undefeated over it. What if Rags to Riches isn't pressed so hard and doesn't get hurt? She was born the same year as Zenyatta. What if Zenyatta isn't given all the time in the world to develop and debuts before the end of her 3yo season? What if the BC isn't at Santa Anita on rubber two years in a row? Goldikova and Conduit both went back to back. Bad Eastern turf horse Life Is Sweet won the Distaff. What if Zenyatta faced a decent in form dirt horse?

Doug I agree with everything your saying.... When you come with a serious argument its cool, my point was Z did show up at Oaklawn and I think Z is better then Rachel, but never did I say shes the best of all time.
Ateam just continues to respond with garbage, last night it was insults of my pics and now its **** about me and fatman, its funny, he clearly HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO SAY.

There's no point in arguing with you seriously because you change your freaking opinion every two seconds and contradict yourself constantly. I have more enlightening discussions with myself.

I never once said she was an all time great... Show me where I said it?
I never once said Rachel was better... Show me?
I think Icon Project would have beat both of them... I have been saying that since last year.
Where have I changed my opinion once? You CANT TAKE BEING WRONG, you always have to be right about everything.

I don't remember you going apeshit over Zenyatta beating those shopping carts at Oaklawn before, now she deserves a statue for shipping out of her backyard twice in three years?

Truthfully I'm sick to death of arguing about which '10 campaign has been less lame, and there's no argument about whose campaign was better last year. So what do you want me to say?

:tro:

While both are lame beyond belief - Clearly Rachel's has been lamer ... but only because Shireffs cranked one up and caught her short 1st off the long layoff and that defeat bigtime deflated the grape sack of her brilliant owner.

probably more akin to a raisin by now....:eek:

Lets check in on Zenyatta's first Grade 1 win of 2010. That was the race where she recieved a phony 102 Beyer in victory because they were embarrassed to give Zenyatta a figure in the 90's and didn't want to be accused of having a bias against her. This is what she beat that day.

Gripsholm Castle ran 6th at 4/1 in an alw race at Del Mar yesterday that isn't shown on her pps above.

What's it say about So. Cal older females when Made For Magic wins a Grade 2 and than ships to Churchill and gets beat 20+ lengths to RA?

I see that nice Euro male (Twice Over) which Z toyed with last fall just took down another 10f G1 earlier this month in GB.

Horse clearly knows how to win over a real distance of ground.

Seems to be having another fine year over there…

FTFU:rolleyes:

Twice Over really showed a love for synthetics by struggling to corner in the BC Classic and doing nothing in the Dubai World Cup which was won by that really old Brazilian horse ... with Gio Ponti off the board.

But yeah, without a doubt, Twice Over is the best horse Zenyatta has ever beaten.

Rachel Alexandra (2nd off the layoff) and Unrivaled Belle both beat Zardana by double digits on dirt the next time they met.

But hey, you still think Easy Goer was a lousy horse because he lost his debut race.

2010 Corel - Eclipse - Twice Over beating Dar Rai Mi, Viscount Nelson and others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSZ_aS82sqY

Nice. He held off a 33/1 shot in a short field who was routed in a Group 3 last out.

The real question I believe is, but can he really beat Dance to My Tune.

He's obviously a good horse. I just think he's a little better on turf than rubber. Same goes for Gio Ponti ... although there are probably 15 better turf horses than Gio Ponti in Europe and about 6 better ones in Japan and probably 3 or 4 better ones in South Africa.

It looks like RHT is rounding back into form from back when he was PG1985.

We should all enjoy the looniness while we still can.

Thank you--he is not mine though ...

Mom is a Raise a Native grandaughter found in a kill pen in Missouri --I ride her as well ....

Crazy little thought/question. Any chance JJ scratches RA due to the extreme heatwave that will be hitting the east coast tomorrow? I personally think that the whole card could have been in jeporady if RA wasn't scheduled to run. But you would think that it's a huge money day for Monmouth and they would cringe just given the thought.
Is this just a crazy talk or could it be a reality?

Supposed to be in the low-100's up and down the East Coast tomorrow. Good question.

We are getting that heat today. It's brutal, no doubt. I'm feeling ill from it.

Oceanport should be a couple degrees less than say Newark though tomorrow, so perhaps that will keep them from calling it.

You can always feel the heat in Newark.

Damn right. Funny story. My car was stolen in Newark right after I graduated from college. I had a 1991 Ford Explorer and the door wouldn't close all the way because I had been rear ended and the frame was bent. The ignition would work with pretty much any key. So I run into an office at Rutgers-Newark campus and when I come out 10 minutes later, no car. Flag down a police officer, I tell him the story and as we are talking it comes over the radio "we got a white Ford Explorer with the door open in the middle of Washington", he says "is that it?" "yup" so I hop in the cruiser and we get the car.

Just so ya know.. I like them both..If they were to race one another I would not be unhappy if one beat the other.. they are both great mares. However, I would like to see Zen face a bit tougher than she has.