I'm sorry.. but Rachel and Zenyatta have never raced against each other? You make it seem like one race off a huge layoff where she lost by a lenght makes her worse than Zenyatta, eventhough they still havent faced each other?

I'll tell you that you are correct only when Zenyatta beats Rachel head to head.

You're right, he's the devil in disguise.

NT

I really don't want to rehash all of this again, but they did have a chance to resolve this in the Apple Blossom this time around, where only because of Zardana being in the field, wrecked what otherwise was as close to a perfect prep for her as possible. Adding on to the 3 weeks, 6 days of possible works leading up to the big race, it is a mystifying move by what some hailed as a sportsman last year. Optically having Jess Jackson pull out would indicate they don't like their chances. As for them ever meeting, we would all love to see this. Let's face it, if Jess doesn't believe she can win, it will never happen. And that is why they are not meeting in the Apple Blossom.

NT, don't make me come back here and post, everyone is so happy when I am not around.

z will have other chances to face the HOY. I wonder if Moss will ship z across the country again only to scratch on raceday because of a little rain. It is a good thing z was scratched at CD last year, because RA's romp in the Kentucky Oaks would have entirely overshadowed whatever z would have done in the Louisville Distaff.

Very few Zenyatta fans distinguish between dirt and synthetic races and assume they would all play out the same.

Zenyatta has 1 dirt win, and admittedly it was an awesome win with a 110 beyer over a champion Ginger Punch. Yes, she beat a champion that day, establishing her quality on both surfaces.

But nearly all of her races and wins have come on tracks that favor her running style with the exception of her thumping Ginger Punch.

I would not bet that she could win with that running style every single time if 90% of her races were on a dirt track, rather than the other way around.

I'd wager large amounts of money that Zenyatta would not be anywhere near undefeated had she ran her career on, say, Santa Anita's old dirt strip. Then again, if my uncle had lady parts, he'd be my aunt, so that thought doesn't seem particularly relevant to this discussion.

This has really got me thinking that if Zenyatta had been racing with Formula one cars she wouldn't have even broke her maiden, but then again if you shoved a jet engine in her a s s she's right back in the race and 15 for 15 with a short tail and shiney shoes.

:tro: :tro: :tro:

This post was almost awarded four trophies, but one was stolen......


I have the utmost of respect and admiration for Rachel Alexandra.

No doubt though that Zenyatta and her connections have managed to not miss a proverbial "Jerry Moss beat" in how they have managed her career and reputation.

I'm not sure how the "Rachel Alexandra was and is not ready" argument holds any water against the open planning and prep the Zenyatta team has done.

At last count I knew there were 25+ world tracks racing on surfaces other than dirt.

Two in the racing history bastion of Kentucky, and two in California...a state with a decent racing history of racing legend of it's own.

Rachel Alexandra has won over a synthetic surface at Keeneland.

Zenyatta won a stakes over a dirt surface at Oaklawn.

And Zenyatta and her connections agreed to meet Rachel Alexandra and crew on their stated surface of "comfort" in the Apple Blossom on dirt. Rachel Alexandra's crew had 7 months between her early September Woodward Stakes win and the Apple Blossom. They could have certainly devised an effective training regimen for Rachel Alexandra to race at top ability by April of her four year old season.

If they really wanted to.


That "synthetic surface versus dirt surface" argument for Rachel Alexandra's connections does not hold water either.

Yep. A nice, slick, overdubbed, processed production lacking any sort of imagination, innovation, or heart.

Not to mention a whole bunch of payola to get airplay at the end of the year. Didn't win them the Grammy, though.

What does one horse have to do with the other in terms of form and fitness?

This isn't some Us And Them battle. It's about two of the top horses in the same division actually butting heads for a change.

Frankly, it's pretty pathetic that both sides think that they're really going all out by agreeing to run in the same race together. They should be ashamed of themselves that they've stirred up all this BS, controversy, and straw-man theatrics that's taken most of the spotlight off the actual horses and put it onto their own withered, decayed, senile heads instead.

I laugh when people say this is "good for racing". If these decrepit old misers took 30 minutes to go on Youtube and punched in "Alysheba Bet Twice", "Alysheba Ferdinand", "Sunday Silence Easy Goer", or "Skip Away Formal Gold" or even "Silver Charm Free House" they'd see how much overwrought fanfare they've brought on for a mere baby step in the realm of sportsmanship.

A curse on both their stables.

Sure they had 7 months in which they "could have" prepared, but that is also ignoring the fact that she may have needed the time. (If you recall, Zenyatta was also given 7 months off leading into 2009.) Also, and stated here repeatedly, Zenyatta was retired (though training beautifully) until the second week of January - so the target of the Apple Blossom for them to meet up wasn't stated until that time and Rachel had yet to post a work.

Nice post by Rollo above.

Too kind

My other trophy was no doubt stolen by one of the half-cocked RA for HotY voters.



RA clearly took some fitness from her butt-whoppin' the other week.

They could've taken a shot at Z in Arky … lot of things in their favor ... but they chickened out.


Hell, I thought Jess said that he wasn't 'afraid to lose'.


Apparently not the case … LMAO

Look at it this way Booth, if Lucky Alexandra hadn't stolen Big Mama's trophy, the latter wouldn't be back for another year..

Yes, but without Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta would have never started in the BC Classic, saving us all from the ridiculously overblown, and now overdone (see the torturous call for the Santa Margarita): "This! Is! Un ba leave a bowl!"

I sure hope she never runs at Santa Anita or Del Mar or the Breeder's Cup again.

Does anyone else get the impression that he kind of tapered the Un-buh-leave-a-bull off a bit towards the end in the Santa Margarita because he probably heard himself saying it and was like, holy s.hit, I can't use that again.

NT

I agree 100%. If Z wins HOY she's retired with "she has nothing else to prove"
but, since she lost HOY they keep her training to race another year.

listen man you are getting your wish so far in this zen/rach thing but i think your bustin balls about the vote is way off base as is your acting like r.a. accomplishemnts on the track are trumped up..she did more in more places than zenyatta..period..zen is a nice horse also and deserves most of the accolades she gets . but make no mistake r.a. when right would be accross the finishline before her. in any number of types and distances. zen beat up on also rans in most of her crushing:rolleyes: victorys. and most all in her cozy home track. r.a whipped ass on all comers for more time at more places and any gender.. just know that

I was personally distraught that no horse was encouraged to sprout wings to catch her.

How am I handling it? I would say I couldnt be happier with the race Rachel ran. I along with everyone else knew she was short for that race. She gains 150lbs, is off 6 months and is probably 50% fit going into the race. Zardana had been racing all along and probably peaked in that race and Rachel ran into a buzz saw and still only lost by a length. Id like to see Zardana in a couple months and she wouldn't even be able to see Rachel at the finish line. As far a Zenyatta goes, I still cant wait till the meet up and Rachel is at 100%, it wont even be a contest. Rachel doesnt lose again for the rest of the year guaranteed!!!

Please, hoovesupsideyourhead

For the 63rd time, RA didn't face much last year.

Z's the one which took on "all comers" … including a couple high-quality Euros … and dusted them in the BCC.

RA would've been another also-ran in that championship contest.


SB is probably a better 10f runner than RA.

QR will drill RA this summer … unless they duck him too…

yup , she did very well at CD by scratching

That wittle muddy twack would have hurt poor Zenyatta's delicate hooves!

I bet she doesnt race again period. Put a fork in her she's done, those 3yo triple crown races cooked her.

It wasn't the muddy track--it was the objection to a sealed track for safety reasons in her first race back when fresh...

Did you notice the carnage at Delta yesterday from the sealed track that led to multiple accidents ???

Just because it didn't happen at Churchill THAT day does not remove the ob jection .

And how about Jackson objecting to the unsafe synthetic track for reasons of opting out of the BC ???

For the thousandth time--Shireffs would have run on a harrowed/floated track, but not a sealed track-- they sealed it . He said that pre-race in an interview on TVG...

It wasn't the mud, it was the track preparation ...

Yet Ian Wilkes, one of the most careful and conservative horsemen in the game, trained the winner of the race Zenyatta scratched from.

NT

And there were NO breakdowns at the BC unsafe surface either--and I am sure some of the trainers there were conservative as well, and chose to run ... .

Shireffs chose not to run on a sealed track--Wilkes did not ...

Was Wilke's horse first off a layoff of 7 months and first time over the track as well ???

Wilkes chose to run--conservative or not, and Shireffs for the aforementioned reasons did not .

Shireffs did not ship his mare acrosss the country for frequent flyer miles--but you can believe what you wish ...

I fail to see anything conclusive in your " point " ...

My "point" is that the whole argument about that race is dumb. The problem is Zenyatta fans have taken on the stance that she had a phenomenally gallant campaign in 2009 where she took on all comers, left no doubt about her superiority and tackled truly unique obstacles. That's not accurate whatsoever.

More importantly, I don't know why I posted because 2009 is done. The sour grapes from anyone associated with Zenyatta not getting HOTY can be cured in 2010. I hope they do everything they can to leave no doubt about her being the best horse in the country this year.

NT

No sir--I said NOTHING about Zenyatta's 2009 campaign --good or bad ..

I have no sour grapes and I recognize that it is a new year...

I merely stated the reason she was scratched--do not lump me into generalities and things I have not expressed ...

I do however, share your view that Zenyatta needs a more contentious campaign THIS year, and I hope she gets this showcase .

z's connections were fearful that RA would run a monster race later on the card in the Oaks and it would overshadow Z's debut. They saw enough that they never left SoCal again.

Point of the matter, counselor, seems to be that if you percieve/predict Rachel would hold off Z at nine furlongs, on any surface, at any track, is pure lunacy. Bulletin....Z better on dirt............. and unbeatable on turf!

I assume that is your group opinion?

"It's cheaper than a movie, and there's free coffee."

If it were Fairplex, most handicappers would take Rachel!

Certain tracks favor Zenyatta. Certain tracks favor Rachel. No horse is unbeatable at every track though.

I was a fan and a witness for most of those match ups. I realize that current event accomplishments real time often seem to pale in comparison to accomplishments by achievers of yore. Time heals wounds, and time helps good stories ferment, develop and gain traction in acceptance.

I think the Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra stories and races of 2009 and 2010 certainly deserve more than mention in the names you reference, and others. And trump some of them.

Again, I have great respect for Rachel Alexandra and have enjoyed her career. I just don't think the Rachel Alexandra connections played their cards as well and managed their filly as well as the Zenyatta connections managed their unique and great mare.

..zen is a nice horse also and deserves most of the accolades she gets . but make no mistake r.a. when right would be accross the finishline before her. in any number of types and distances. zen beat up on also rans in most of her crushing victorys. and most all in her cozy home track. r.a whipped ass on all comers for more time at more places and any gender.. just know that


Kudos for being the first in a long time to label anything in metro Los Angeles as "cozy."

The point was that all those pairings mentioned faced each other multiple times with merely an iota of the press these two horses have received for a matchup that still has yet to take place.

Rachel Alexandra's legacy will likely pay the price for Zenyatta coming out of "retirement" and getting another streamlined campaigned with the main focus maintaining an unbeaten record as opposed to taking on all-comers. Zenyatta seems poised to maintain her form whereas Rachel Alexandra appears hard-pressed to find her 3yo form, not to mention any improved form related to maturity.

It's ironic that you suggest that Rachel Alexandra's camp somehow mismanaged their filly. Her 2009 season was clearly one of the greatest campaigns for a 3yo filly of all time. Unfortunately, it appears as though that campaign has gutted her in much the same way that fillies like Silverbulletday, Winning Colors, and Genuine Risk were gutted.

Of course, Zenyatta supporters will turn a blind eye to this probability, equating the 3yo Rachel Alexandra with the 4yo version. Sadly, that group must rely on Rachel Alexandra failing this season to be able to trump up their own heroine, who, ironically, has few real noteworthy accomplishments herself, save one.

As far as Zenyatta is concerned, make no mistake, being "managed well" has more to do with what races you don't run in, not what races you do.

Yes, the Moss's and the Shirreffs have pulled off an amazing stunt; they have created the illusion that Zenyatta is unbeatable. And it is the main blight on her career.

I think we'll see RA race again by Derby Day.

Actually it was the Woodward that "cooked her".

She doesn't ever want to feel that burn again … lol



OVERRATED … and skeered of Big Mama Z :D

I respectfully disagree, I think Rachel winning the Haskell, Preakness and Woodward over males is more exciting and better management then staying in one state and taking on the same terrible fillies & racing in the BCC on your home course against a field of horses who most were question marks on the Pro Ride..

BCC was a great win and a great day, but there is no doubt that Rachels year was much better managed and was much better overall.

This year could obviously be different.. and if Moss and crew decide to run Zenyatta out of Cali it will be great. Of course Rachel could come back as strong as she was last year too.. people are making way too big of deal of one race off a long layoff where Rachel actually ran okay.