So they believe Vale of York is 2yr old colt champion?:confused:

Of course I'm serious... They also have something in common.

You are correct: Giant's Causeway

Don't forget about Swift Temper, she's special too, right?

NT

.....wow :zz: :zz:

You're really bitter about the whole thing. Next your going to tell us what a great sportsman Jess Jackson is.

Are you on meth..?

The more I think about it, even though Rachel wasn't that impressive in the Preakness or Woodward, she may not have liked either of those tracks. I know that Borel said she didn't really handle the track at Pimlico. I didn't hear any comments from him regarding whether she liked the track at Saratoga, but I know that alot of horses don't handle that track, so she may not have liked the track there either.

So she really may have had a much bigger excuse than just going too fast early in those races. It may have been a combination of going too fast and not handling those tracks.

She may in fact be a totally different horse at tracks she likes such as Churchill, Belmont, and Monmouth.

She really did look like a different horse in those races.

So the more I think about it, if Zenyatta and Rachel faced other, I think there is a good chance it would come down to which track they ran at and how the race set up. If they ran at Santa Anita or Saratoga, my guess is that Zenyatta probably wins. But if they run at Churchill or Belmont, I think Rachel may win. The pace would obviously be a big factor too.

I was just going over Macho Again's PPs and watching some of his races. He is actually a much better horse than I realized. I had totally forgotten that he won the Stephen Foster. I think the race that Rachel ran in the Woodward was actually quite a bit better than I originally thought.

Actually it comes down to the distance... Rachel was breathing fire in the Preakness(1 3/16) and the Woodward(1 1/4), she was at her bottom for sure in both of those huge efforts.

Zenyatta would run right past RA at anything further than 1 1/8, any thing less, RA is outta sight from Z.

The Woodward is only 1 1/8 miles, not 1 1/4 miles. I think it would come down to the track just as much the distance. At Churchill in the Ky Oaks, it looked like Rachel could have gone another 1/8 of a mile with no problem.

I'm starting to wonder if the Equibase time is right. If you watch the replay and clock the race, you will get 1:50. I know that there is nothing wrong with my stop-watch because when I clock the Apple Blossom I get 1:42 3/5 which is the correct time.

As I said, there was a problem with the clock on the race. If you watch the replay, you will see that the fractions were all messed up. They showed the opening 1/4 mile going in :19 and the half going in :41. The final time showed as 1:50 but how could you really trust that after the fractions were totally wrong. So nobody was sure what the final time was after the race. They ended up coming up with something a day or two later but I can't remember what it was. All I know is that right now Equibase shows the final time was 1:48 3/5 (I'm trusting you on that). But if you clock the race, you will get 1:50. If you go to racereplays.com, they show the final time as 1:50.34.

If you read any articles about the race, they show the final time as 1:50.34.

Here are a couple of articles:

http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=31799

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horse...42525327_x.htm

Zenyatta came screaming down the lane to the roar of the crowd with an excitement that hasn't been felt in this game since- well the Woodward. As far as HOY goes, it's like the Oscars- I could care less.

Shes actually decent and her powerfull win over Seventh Street really validates Icon Project.

Glad you brought this up and worth repeating.

:wf Your mindset is puzzling to me.

The only thing that I was unimpressed about this year is the way Zenyatta won her 4 prior starts. Talk about dissappointing. The feeling before each one of those races was is this the day Zen get beat by a bunch of horses that are no better then 40k claimers in NY.

I dont know why she needs an excuse for the Preakness and the Woodward.. I mean not only did she WIN both races but she had by FAR and by Far I mean like 1000 times tougher trip than anyone in those races. The Preakness and the Woodward may have been her best 2 races when you look at the trip.. though I do feel the Haskell was her best race.

Honestly, if Rachel hadnt have had to sprint 1 3/16 in the Preakness and sprint for 1 1/8th in the Woodward, she may have not been so gassed at the end. It was incredible the way she won those races.. as a 3yo filly non-the-less.

If you are going on complete body of work, no doubt hands down Rachel for the HOY. But Zenyatta was really something on Saturday. Ultra impressive though I thought the Classic basically the BC turf 2nd Division.

I dont feel Zenyatta should be HOY over Rachel.. but I am totally okay with them sharing the honors, if that is possible.

Yes, because I think a Belmont-Travers-Jockey Club Gold Cup winner is more worthy of a horse of the year honor than a *insert four cruddy SoCal restricted race*-Breeders Cup Classic winner, I am clearly hanging out with Greta Kuntzweiler. Excellent observation.

summer bird has no shot to take hoy. it's definitely between rachel and zenyatta. once the excitement of zenyatta performance wanes a bit, i think you'll see the tilt back towards rachel for what she's done all year.

Not as taxing as beating Bullsbay, D'tara, Flashing and Malibu Prayer

Why can't everyone just appreciate both horses?

Winners of the Whitney (G1), Test (G1), and Chilukki (G2)? Doesn't really bolster your argument.

NT

Just wanted to thank Sightseek for taking the time to gather all these links and post them.

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Careful there. I love Rachel. I'm just throwing back those 89 beyer numbers that her opponents got in their other wins back at everyone that has dissed Zenyatta for being too slow.

See?

I will say this, your pictures are amazing.

NT

I'd like to and I was very happy for Zen when she won the Classic but the nonsense that spews out of some peoples mouths kind of taints it for me a little bit. 4 cake walks that were less then impressive and 1 big win on her home turf against non-proven horses on the surface doesn't anoint her a god like some people would make her out to be.

I do chuckle at Calvin's Kendall Jackson pants every time.

By the way, the photo above is Rachel actually winning one of her "cake walks"

Oh is that the one were she one by 20? Show the pic of Zen struggling to win by a nose against filly 40k claimers.

You mean the race where she spotted them 10+ lengths with 3/8's to run off a 48.4 half and closed in 22.1 with her last 8th in 11 flat?

And you're right. Malibu Prayer was very impressive winning the Chilukki.

come on, you're embarrassing yourself now.. they're both great horses.

I agree 100%. We are very lucky to have view two of the finest ever to grace the track.

Here's one more of Rachel.....

that's awesome.. good stuff.

That last picture is sensational, Rev. She's gorgeous.

Ex-claimer Furthest Land takes Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile, Mike Maker ...
Nov 7, 2009 ... Furthest Land, who could not win under a $35000 claiming tag at Belmont Park ... owner Ken Ramsey's former claimer Furthest Land proved to be the big dog in ... The win was the first in a Breeders' Cup race for Ramsey, ...
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=4632755

Great? She may be the best horse on synthetics but here is just another reason why we cannot take running on rubber and wax seriously. Is Futhest Land a great horse now? Is he the best miler in the country? Is he a champion?
You see what that stuff does to average to below average horses? Its a joke.

Can't you pretty much say the same thing about the turf? There is a long list of horses that weren't much on dirt but excelled on turf. Should we do away with turf racing also?

Did anyone contend that Furthest Land was anything but a perfect trip winner of a mediocre race over a surface that he apparently likes?

No you cannot say that about the turf, because they dont run the BC DIRT mile on the turf and they dont run the BC Classic on the turf. Turf is Turf they don't try and pass it off as dirt like they do synthetics.
This is a horrible attempt to justify why a horse that couldn't win in 35 claimers in NY just went to the BC run on wax and smoked proven G1 winners on the Dirt.

The dirt horses actually fared best - by far - in the "Dirt" Mile than they did in any other of the supposed dirt races on Saturday.

You seem very angry. It's a shame.

BTW, the Breeder's Cup Dirt Mile hasn't been run on dirt or at a mile since its inception.

It has actually been run on dirt once...sloppy dirt but dirt nonetheless. It has also been run at a mile for the last two years.

I'm already looking forward to the one-turn mile that it's supposed to be next year at CD.

NT