Not to worry JJP - ABC, CBS, NBC and The N (not sure if it is Degrassi or True Jackson) are all over this story - the Adminstration is in big political trouble on this one.



:rolleyes:

more like $260- $300 I would bet.

You would get your ass kicked on that bet if you made it.

They will be. But Obama's backers are so clueless, they'll just go along with the big rise in energy prices......after all he's the Messiah, isn't he? By the end of 2010 even the hard core Obama backers will realize what a fraud he is.

Meanwhile, earlier last week in Chicago we had a high of 65 degrees on July 1.....the coldest 'high' temperature for that date in 80 years. Must be all that global warming.

:zz:

So when I played golf on Christmas in Chicago a few years ago, what did you think then?...And I ain't clueless dude

I see plenty of idiots playing golf in 40 degree weather. If that's your idea of fun, fine. Not my cup of tea.

I know that we are now past the 4th of July and I have turned on my air conditioning a total of 3 times in 2009. We had chilly weather well into June. If that's global warning to you, you are from another planet.

cap and trade is all about revenue and control and the usual transfer of power to Washington and of wealth to the poor, acorn, unions, etc. it does nothing for the environment, except probably make things worse. they're selling the offsets so there won't be any reduction in CO2.

the costs people are throwing around like $200 or $800 are very misleading.
that's only the tip of the iceberg, only an accounting of the allowances. it doesn't take into acount the economic effects, this bill wrecks the economy.

the aggressive pursuit of renewable energy is what helped to put California in the shape its in.

:p I sat on my deck this morning having coffee, reading the newspaper and watching the dogs play, and it was warmer than normal, so you're wrong, so there :p :D

It's called Global Warming, not pimple on the ass of the rest of the World warming

:rolleyes: now that was funny

Your sense of humor is as pathetic as your knowledge of energy.

I laughed...and that's all that counts;)

oh...Geeker laughed too, and he's one of "yours"...

but..I am right. You sit out there and count the number of days your AC runs and really think that has anything to do with global warming? I'm sorry...we should probably just agree to disagree because if you think my knowledge of energy is pathetic, what does that make yours?

Well considering people go golfing in sub 40 degree weather, I don't think thats exactly a good measure. First off, there is NO proof of global warming. None. Secondly, it doesn't matter if we emit zero carbon, if China doesn't go along with it, it means nothing. They are, by far, the biggest polluter. This is just an excuse for the new administration to make a huge tax hike.

But I did think it was funny....

;)

So if the most drunkest driver on the road gets away, we shouldn't arrest the second..or any of them? We are supposed to be the World Leader in all aspects of society..not just death row executions and murder.

And I'll say this...as much as I believe global warming is a real and serious issue for us and generations to come, I'm not convinced the Cap and Trade as it's laid out now is the right way to approach it. I like Obama, you don't, but to say there is Zero proof of global warming, with all due respect, I think is not giving all the neutral scientists from both sides credit.

LOL... we are the leader in death row executions and murder?? yeah right...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ons-per-capita

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita


we're world leaders in murder and executions kinda like we are a muslim nation!

I'm glad to see that things are improving, but I think you can see what my point was. And remind me not to get arrested in Bermuda

I see the forecast for tomorrow in Chicago as having a high of 69 degrees.....on July 8. This hasn't been a one day phenomenon. Spring was colder than normal and summer is as well.

despite what you might think from this site, neither new york or chicago matter when it comes to climate change.

it's all about los angeles.

That is one of the predictions that has come true for climate change. Abnormal weather patterns over time. It supports that climate change has occured, it is indicative of it (in the large picture) and it most definitely doesn't disprove it. Areas that are normally hot cool, cool areas heat up, wet areas experience drought, dry areas experience rain, etc.

yeah......the sky is falling too!

How fortunate that it is now called "Climate Change" instead of "Global Warming". Its supporters can now claim to be correct regardless of which way the temperature goes on any given day. Brilliant -- brilliantly deceptive I mean.

It's a crock.

Don't fall off the edge of the earth! ;) :D

I love this article..yes, it's an OP-ED piece from the LA times, but with all the WSJ crap I see posted around here, fair is fair..

National Review magazine, with its popular website, is a perfect example. It has a blog dedicated to casting doubt on global warming, or solutions to global warming, or anybody who advocates a solution. Its title is "Planet Gore." The psychology at work here is pretty clear: Your average conservative may not know anything about climate science, but conservatives do know they hate Al Gore. So, hold up Gore as a hate figure and conservatives will let that dictate their thinking on the issue.



http://articles.latimes.com/2007/mar...ion/op-chait25

Well you know what?
We are dying here in Texas.
Dying from the heat.
This summer has been excessively hot.
A much larger area is in severe drought than prior years.

So I will use this a solid evidence that the world as a whole is getting much hotter.

Good God.
How many times do we have to go through minature blips before people understand data taken over many years from may places? Not just Chicago...

Is this some Conservative affliction caused by a conservative virus...

[quote=GBBob]I love this article..yes, it's an OP-ED piece from the LA times, but with all the WSJ crap I see posted around here, fair is fair..

The psychology at work here is pretty clear: Your average conservative may not know anything about climate science, but conservatives do know they hate Al Gore. So, hold up Gore as a hate figure and conservatives will let that dictate their thinking on the issue.
[quote]

Conservatives already acknowledge the brilliance of Al Gore -- didn't he invent the internet? :rolleyes:

Your average liberal may very well know less about science than the conservatives do. They certainly use less logic in the formulation of their arguments.

Why dont we hear about hydroelectric power from conservatives
and how environmentalists tried shut down some of these dams?
They supply fully 20% of the electrical power for the US. These are
extraordinarily clean sources of energy. However, the dams
also affected the salmon run. And there was a solution. But you
get groups wanting to shut off most of the electrical power
to basically all of the Northwestern states? It was short-sighted and amazingly brazen with lack of thought.

So the conservatives use even worse arguments with "its cold in Chicago..."
Jeeezzzzzzz.

Just stick with the economics of cutting emissions.
Please.

Just because one can't understand a scientific subject, doesn't make it false.

Which party is constantly trying to get evolution out
of SCIENCE classrooms and creationism... no that wont work...
intelligent design... no thats stupid as sh.t...


into SCIENCE classrooms?

True, but just because one allegedly urgent theory can't be proven, doesn't mean it's assumed to be true either. The position that "the time for debate is over" does not hold.

A miniscule fluctuation in carbon dioxide is not going to doom the Earth. It's total nonsense.

Of course its a crock. they had to change it to climate change to skip over the fact that there has been global cooling for about 10 years. other contrary scientific opinions that don't support the narrative are also deep sixed. the fact is that relying on models as an accurate way to understand complex and subtle climatic behavior is assinine. the system is way too complex for the puny models they use with limited data.

they selectively pick and choose the science that will support their power grab. Like I've been saying, it doesn't matter to this bunch that the current bill will not reduce atmospheric CO2 levels. this is what liberals do, enact onerous feel good laws that they can boast about how they've really done something wonderful when in fact they will cause more harm than good.

the work that will shift to China and India where they will not be limiting CO2 output will in my opinion actually increase the rate that CO2 is churned out worldwide.

climate change is the new "it hasn't been proven that cigarettes cause cancer". that was a reasonably contentious debate until that day the roof fell in. funny how no one debates this anymore.

an interest group with deep pockets will fight a public health issue that damages their bottom line.

first they ignore you. next they laugh at you. then they fight you. then you win.

the g.o.p. is on a decades long losing streak of picking the wrong side of issues. i doubt anything beats chasing a culturally conservative family oriented hispanic vote into the democrats lap with racist immigrant bashing but 30 years from now this issue could prove me wrong.

this is just par for the loony far right course.

Here's a way to stop global warming......stop breathing , yeah that should be the next government policy , everyone just stop breathing.:D

Kind of like "jobs saved" people don't care.No one questions this administration. If you thought Bush was trying to control everything how can you possibly approve of what's going on now?

The stimulus plan was the first Obama disaster... and people are now calling them out on that.. cap and trade will be his second disaster... well maybe.. hope congress thinks enough about keeping their jobs and kills this bill.

your first paragraph ruined your second...

So you are also telling me that hurricane forecasting and weather forecasting is still just a guessing game, that it has not improved? You are selectively picking a 10 year period instead of looking at longer term. And that 10 year period you are selecting was actually predicted by some of the warming models.

It is very complex. But you are basically saying forget about it, we cant understand it, there is nothing going on basically because of your political leanings, not because you have looked at all the data. You choose the data that fits your agenda. Same thing for evolution, its too complex, we cannot understand it.
Typical for politicians.

Senior Democrat senators said on Wednesday they would change a provision that imposes carbon taxes on imports following warnings that the clause in the House’s cap-and-trade bill could spark a global trade war.

How fitting to tax the people they're supposed to represent and let foreign companies slide because they're afraid.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f91e0ff4-6...44feabdc0.html

Shocking.

Does anyone here actually believe in Cap and Trade and believe that it will work? Obviously most republicans or people that lean to the right do not, but does anyone actually think this is a good idea whether you believe in global warming or not? Is this really a solution? I would love to see an arguement for Cap and trade. All of the discussion has been on whether global warming exists or not, will someone please argue why they believe cap and trade is a good idea?