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-   -   Mullins/Gato Go Win SCR story emerging (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28837)

Danzig 04-07-2009 07:15 AM

from drf:


Mullins said it wasn't until after he administered the Air Power to Gato Go Win that security guards began asking questions.

mullins doing a dance about whether IWR got anything before the gotham. he said air power was sent over to the det barn with the colt that day as well. mullins claims he had two ny guys take the colt over that day, that he didn't go to the barn at all, and his own guys couldn't get licensed.

CSC 04-07-2009 08:15 AM

I wonder if Mullins applied Airpower without a syringe, would this story have any legs? I can't remember the poster's name but she sounded knowledgeable when she said it was the equivalent of giving a horse a cough drop, all this trouble for a menthol type based application?

sumitas 04-07-2009 08:24 AM

The detention barn is there for a reason . Mullins knows the rules . He broke them according to all accounts . It was not "an innocent mistake" imo . It's up to the NYRA to do the right thing now since Mullins was not able to do so . The NYRA did scratch the horse which was the right thing to do at the time .

pmacdaddy 04-07-2009 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
I wonder if Mullins applied Airpower without a syringe, would this story have any legs? I can't remember the poster's name but she sounded knowledgeable when she said it was the equivalent of giving a horse a cough drop, all this trouble for a menthol type based application?

In the detention barn, I have to think it would be a big deal oral syringe or not.

The fact that he so much as admitted he was giving the same application to multiple horses, was probably about the worst thing he could say. Certianly goes against the "Gato Go Win just needed a cough drop" defense...

dellinger63 04-07-2009 08:32 AM

I just hope tomorrow we don't hear, "we will not comment on specifics as the incident is under investigation" but I know we will.

Dunbar 04-07-2009 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown
:tro:

But it was extremely stupid to say that about New York when his fate is in the NYRA's hands, not to mention IEAH'es. It sure doesn't look like many who posted here took the time to read any or all of the links posted on the thread. Maybe that's why those people are confused.

I agree that his comments were stupid, though if you are taking the "outrage" defense, Mullins comments are consistent.

What I don't get (and I have read the linked articles) is how he thought he would get away with such a risky move in the first place. It's like a bizarro story where nothing really makes sense.

Then again, I should remember that people do often have a warped sense of what they can get away with, to a degree that challenges objective reason. Eliot Spitzer comes to mind.

That said, it should be possible to figure out if this comment by Mullins is true:

“They looked at everything I carried in, so when they let me through [with AirPower], in my mind, everything was fine,” Mullins said. “Everything was out in the open. Two investigators watched me give the horse the treatment then five minutes later they wanted to see it. If they saw the AirPower and dosing syringe on me the whole time, then why didn’t they stop me?

Was the Air Power "out in the open" or wasn't it? Was the syringe "out in the open" or wasn't it? Will the security people deny this?

--Dunbar

RolloTomasi 04-07-2009 02:15 PM

I don't know if the respective trainers ever suffered any penalties beyond their horses being scratched, but just in the last 2 years or so, Jack Van Berg and Ron McAnally faced similar situations to the Mullins one. Van Berg had his stakes filly, The Golden Noodle, scratched from a graded stakes at Del Mar because it was administered a flavored mouthwash in front of the security guard assigned to the horse. Also at Del Mar, McAnally's colt, Men's Magazine was scratched from the opening day Oceanside Stakes when its groom gave it an oral anti-ulcer medication with a security guard present.

Left Bank 04-07-2009 02:39 PM

I thought detention barns were there for keeping horses from getting ANYTHING before a race!????

Honu 04-07-2009 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi
I don't know if the respective trainers ever suffered any penalties beyond their horses being scratched, but just in the last 2 years or so, Jack Van Berg and Ron McAnally faced similar situations to the Mullins one. Van Berg had his stakes filly, The Golden Noodle, scratched from a graded stakes at Del Mar because it was administered a flavored mouthwash in front of the security guard assigned to the horse. Also at Del Mar, McAnally's colt, Men's Magazine was scratched from the opening day Oceanside Stakes when its groom gave it an oral anti-ulcer medication with a security guard present.


Doesnt matter who does it or what it is , if its not water being used to rinse the horses mouth before the race it is illegal . Call it being stupid or cagey either way it doesnt excuse breaking the rules , I would think any trainer shipping to a racetrack to run would for their own protection find out what the rules are , if they dont shame on them.

RolloTomasi 04-07-2009 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honu
Doesnt matter who does it or what it is , if its not water being used to rinse the horses mouth before the race it is illegal . Call it being stupid or cagey either way it doesnt excuse breaking the rules , I would think any trainer shipping to a racetrack to run would for their own protection find out what the rules are , if they dont shame on them.

True, but I wonder if this story would be a lot less inflammatory if Mullins had not administered the Air Power personally. As far as I know, neither Van Berg or McAnally were handed any suspensions and certainly there was not as much shouting for blood, if any.

What's a bit foolish on Mullins part, post-incident, is his statement that he uses Air Power "all the time" in California, which some people might take to mean he uses it on raceday. Of course, like you say, its just as illegal (on raceday) in CA as it is in NY.

Mustanada 04-07-2009 05:55 PM

I have read all the articles and posts here so far on Mullins. Unfortunately I sense NYRA can't take a big lead on banning or suspending Mullins without exposing themselves for not being vigilant in stopping this upon entrance to the detention barn.
Karen Murphy will now punch holes in this incident and ask how Air Power got past the entrance inspection for one. There seems to be some back and forth with dialogue between officials and Mullins that are a little confusing.
I'm not a fan of this guy at all. But I think, in the end he may walk. That was painful to write.

pointman 04-07-2009 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustanada
I have read all the articles and posts here so far on Mullins. Unfortunately I sense NYRA can't take a big lead on banning or suspending Mullins without exposing themselves for not being vigilant in stopping this upon entrance to the detention barn.
Karen Murphy will now punch holes in this incident and ask how Air Power got past the entrance inspection for one. There seems to be some back and forth with dialogue between officials and Mullins that are a little confusing.
I'm not a fan of this guy at all. But I think, in the end he may walk. That was painful to write.

I understand what you are saying and I fear that he may walk too, but the reality is that the rules seem to be clear that this substance and a syringe are clearly banned from the detention barn. A shoplifting is no less a crime because the store failed to post a guard at the entrence or within the store to be vigilant to those who are shoplifting. Unless NYRA was somehow complicit in having security see and approve of the administration of the substance and then someone realized that the horse could not be allowed to race on it, it is hard to understand how he didn't break some clear rules that require a punishment. Anything less vitiates the purpose of a detention barn.

I should say that my posts are based on the facts made public and there certainly can be things unknown that favor Mullins. That being said, there seems to be at the very least a clear violation of the detention barn rules of possession of items the rules clearly prohibit in that area which certainly warrants punishment if the detention barn is to be taken seriously.

Mustanada 04-07-2009 06:19 PM

Shoplifting is a crime. The NYRA D barn is a NYRA institute and not a NYS Racing law or racing rule. However, if NYRA does "suspend" Mullins how does that play out with other states. Example: If a jock is suspended other racing states don't allow that jock to ride.

dellinger63 04-07-2009 06:48 PM

he'll get suspended, appeal and serve his time after BC, like always.

HaloWishingwell 04-07-2009 06:55 PM

Did it sound like Dr. Allday thought it was being blown out of porportion at today's attheraces show?

Hickory Hill Hoff 04-07-2009 07:36 PM




pointman 04-07-2009 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustanada
Shoplifting is a crime. The NYRA D barn is a NYRA institute and not a NYS Racing law or racing rule. However, if NYRA does "suspend" Mullins how does that play out with other states. Example: If a jock is suspended other racing states don't allow that jock to ride.

I was making an analogy. My point was that a rule doesn't become less of a rule because security is lax. In this case I believe it should be an infraction solely for bringing the items into the detention barn which it appears to be. Anything less eliminates the purpose of having one in the first place IMO.

Rudeboyelvis 04-07-2009 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honu
Doesnt matter who does it or what it is , if its not water being used to rinse the horses mouth before the race it is illegal . Call it being stupid or cagey either way it doesnt excuse breaking the rules , I would think any trainer shipping to a racetrack to run would for their own protection find out what the rules are , if they dont shame on them.


Of course. And all of this is assuming that all that was in the "Air Power" bottle was in fact Air power, which by all accounts is a joke. It's a complete friggin abomination. The douche needs to lose his license.

Danzig 04-07-2009 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustanada
Shoplifting is a crime. The NYRA D barn is a NYRA institute and not a NYS Racing law or racing rule. However, if NYRA does "suspend" Mullins how does that play out with other states. Example: If a jock is suspended other racing states don't allow that jock to ride.

there is reciprocity between the racing jurisdictions. if mullins gets suspended, he's pretty much suspended nationwide. he needs a nice, loooooong vacation.

slotdirt 04-08-2009 08:23 AM

Has anybody read paulickreport.com's coverage of this? John Scheinmann (RIP, Washington Post horse racing coverage) wrote a pretty interesting article on Mullins back in 2005 with quotes from the CHRB.

10 pnt move up 04-08-2009 10:40 AM

I laugh at the thought of this being a big deal. Like racing cares about drugs, the states sure dont, what do states care about right now, money? What do owners care about right now? Are fans going to change anything they do because they know that Mullins, are about 95% of the trainers are cheating? No, this is soooo much to do about nothing, it shows Mullins as an idiot, but didnt we already know this?

CSC 04-08-2009 10:59 AM

Roger Clemons.

dagolfer33 04-09-2009 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Bank
I thought detention barns were there for keeping horses from getting ANYTHING before a race!????

Bring the guard at the front a medium well done filet, maybe a couple of Yankees tickets......probably gets you in.:D

Danzig 04-09-2009 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
it is confusing when every other article I read claims that they caught him attempting to administer.

if you are attempting you have not yet succeeded in doing


i guess it was after he gave it thru the syringe. at any rate, i find it laughable that his defense is 'they let me in with it'. almost as good as the 'do you think i'm stupid' defense ala steve ass.

Danzig 04-09-2009 09:21 PM

two trainers at oaklawn fined
 
from drf:

Steep fines for two trainers

Trainer Jorge Lara, who was taken into custody last Friday at Oaklawn and charged with public intoxication, has been fined $2,500 by the Oaklawn stewards as a result of the incident. In a ruling issued Wednesday, Lara was cited for "having an alcohol content higher than .05 percent while having direct physical contact with horses on the day's racing program."

Lara, who was released a few hours after being taken into custody, faces a possible civil fine during a court date set for April 28 in Hot Springs.

In other rulings, trainer Rusty Hellman was fined $1,000 and suspended 30 days "for possession of a needle and syringe on the backside containing residue of salicylic acid." Hellman's suspension runs through April 27.

herkhorse 04-09-2009 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Um...Lara was taken into custody at the track? He was that drunk at work? I guess Cole Norman really did pass the torch to Lara.

:tro:

geeker2 04-09-2009 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
from drf:

Steep fines for two trainers

Trainer Jorge Lara, who was taken into custody last Friday at Oaklawn and charged with public intoxication, has been fined $2,500 by the Oaklawn stewards as a result of the incident. In a ruling issued Wednesday, Lara was cited for "having an alcohol content higher than .05 percent while having direct physical contact with horses on the day's racing program."

Lara, who was released a few hours after being taken into custody, faces a possible civil fine during a court date set for April 28 in Hot Springs.

In other rulings, trainer Rusty Hellman was fined $1,000 and suspended 30 days "for possession of a needle and syringe on the backside containing residue of salicylic acid." Hellman's suspension runs through April 27.

Beastiality ?

Danzig 04-09-2009 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeker2
Beastiality ?


:eek:

:wf

geeker2 04-09-2009 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
:eek:

:wf


;)

docicu3 04-09-2009 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O2 CSC
I wonder if Mullins applied Airpower without a syringe, would this story have any legs? I can't remember the poster's name but she sounded knowledgeable when she said it was the equivalent of giving a horse a cough drop, all this trouble for a menthol type based application?

This is exactly the point. Guanefisin is a mucolytic or a cough syrup which has absolutely zero measurable benefit to horses, humans or rodents like Mullins. The Air Power syringe HAD to be a decoy for something else he was giving.

Mullins used the oral syringe to carry "Drug X" (no offense Drugs) so that if he was caught he had his "It's only Air Power" excuse readily available.

Let me give you a very real example of a drug that could have been used here.

DNAse or Dornase Alpha is a medication we use in humans (normally nebulized but one would think a well placed oral syringe may be of benefit).
This medication was a break through for kids with Cystic Fibosis who could not mobilize secretions or clear this very thick tenacious mucus from their airways or lungs. This problem is commonly associated with CF.

The genius of the medication is that part of it's mechanism of action was to turn itself into water after thinning these cement like secretions. So the drug literally turns the cement like substance in the lungs of these kids into water vapor that is exhaled.......which of course would make it undetectable should you want to test for it.

Hopefully the benefit to a guy like Mullins with a stakes horse or two in the detention barn is obvious....

Let your imagination unwind a little further and you realize that the terminal reaction of turning the Drug X,Y or Z into water vapor or actually CO2 and H20 could be used with any medication as long as it is constructed to metabolize to CO2 and H2O.

The same chemistry that created DNAse for CF kids to melt secretions could be used to 1) administer stimulants 2) anabolic meds etc. etc etc. The possibilities are endless. If you could give any cheating compound and have it metabolize to water vapor it doesn't matter what you start with. The effects of the initial med are undetectable and the logic that all cheating substances are measurable in urine or blood is a fairy tale. The whole idea doesn't require a brilliant chemist as the technology is already very well known.

Interestingly Mullins was catchable Saturday, if the syringe and it's contents were tested by HPLC or chromotography against an "Air Power" control. If you compared the pattern of the control to the syringe Mullins had Saturday and if additional spikes were present or isolated, it would prove he wasn't just using Air Power as the drug only turns to water if it comes in contact with mucus. My guess is Mullins isn't aware of that....

Now again the facts above are all legit but I have no insider knowledge that this is what actually Mullins did. I just wanted to lay out how easy it would be for him to pull this off in the Detention Barn last Saturday.

philcski 04-09-2009 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3
This is exactly the point. Guanefisin is a mucolytic or a cough syrup which has absolutely zero measurable benefit to horses, humans or rodents like Mullins. The Air Power syringe HAD to be a decoy for something else he was giving.

Mullins used the oral syringe to carry "Drug X" (no offense Drugs) so that if he was caught he had his "It's only Air Power" excuse readily available.

Let me give you a very real example of a drug that could have been used here.

DNAse or Dornase Alpha is a medication we use in humans (normally nebulized but one would think a well placed oral syringe may be of benefit).
This medication was a break through for kids with Cystic Fibosis who could not mobilize secretions or clear this very thick tenacious mucus from their airways or lungs. This problem is commonly associated with CF.

The genius of the medication is that part of it's mechanism of action was to turn itself into water after thinning these cement like secretions. So the drug literally turns the cement like substance in the lungs of these kids into water vapor that is exhaled.......which of course would make it undetectable should you want to test for it.

Hopefully the benefit to a guy like Mullins with a stakes horse or two in the detention barn is obvious....

Let your imagination unwind a little further and you realize that the terminal reaction of turning the Drug X,Y or Z into water vapor or actually CO2 and H20 could be used with any medication as long as it is constructed to metabolize to CO2 and H2O.

The same chemistry that created DNAse for CF kids to melt secretions could be used to 1) administer stimulants 2) anabolic meds etc. etc etc. The possibilities are endless. If you could give any cheating compound and have it metabolize to water vapor it doesn't matter what you start with. The effects of the initial med are undetectable and the logic that all cheating substances are measurable in urine or blood is a fairy tale. The whole idea doesn't require a brilliant chemist as the technology is already very well known.

Interestingly Mullins was catchable Saturday, if the syringe and it's contents were tested by HPLC or chromotography against an "Air Power" control. If you compared the pattern of the control to the syringe Mullins had Saturday and if additional spikes were present or isolated, it would prove he wasn't just using Air Power as the drug only turns to water if it comes in contact with mucus. My guess is Mullins isn't aware of that....

Now again the facts above are all legit but I have no insider knowledge that this is what actually Mullins did. I just wanted to lay out how easy it would be for him to pull this off in the Detention Barn last Saturday.

D*mn you're smart. Some serious CSI work here. Side question, so this drug really has been effective for CF?

docicu3 04-09-2009 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
D*mn you're smart. Some serious CSI work here. Side question, so this drug really has been effective for CF?

Oh yeah the drug works really well for CF patients.....which despite the thick mucous issue the disease is complicated by another functional deficit known as immotile cilia syndrome or the hair cells don't project the mucous forward so they can't cough the stuff up denovo thats why the drug is such a remarkable discovery. And no I am really not any where near as smart as Hooves or GPK....just to name a few

freddymo 04-10-2009 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3
This is exactly the point. Guanefisin is a mucolytic or a cough syrup which has absolutely zero measurable benefit to horses, humans or rodents like Mullins. The Air Power syringe HAD to be a decoy for something else he was giving.

Mullins used the oral syringe to carry "Drug X" (no offense Drugs) so that if he was caught he had his "It's only Air Power" excuse readily available.

Let me give you a very real example of a drug that could have been used here.

DNAse or Dornase Alpha is a medication we use in humans (normally nebulized but one would think a well placed oral syringe may be of benefit).
This medication was a break through for kids with Cystic Fibosis who could not mobilize secretions or clear this very thick tenacious mucus from their airways or lungs. This problem is commonly associated with CF.

The genius of the medication is that part of it's mechanism of action was to turn itself into water after thinning these cement like secretions. So the drug literally turns the cement like substance in the lungs of these kids into water vapor that is exhaled.......which of course would make it undetectable should you want to test for it.

Hopefully the benefit to a guy like Mullins with a stakes horse or two in the detention barn is obvious....

Let your imagination unwind a little further and you realize that the terminal reaction of turning the Drug X,Y or Z into water vapor or actually CO2 and H20 could be used with any medication as long as it is constructed to metabolize to CO2 and H2O.

The same chemistry that created DNAse for CF kids to melt secretions could be used to 1) administer stimulants 2) anabolic meds etc. etc etc. The possibilities are endless. If you could give any cheating compound and have it metabolize to water vapor it doesn't matter what you start with. The effects of the initial med are undetectable and the logic that all cheating substances are measurable in urine or blood is a fairy tale. The whole idea doesn't require a brilliant chemist as the technology is already very well known.

Interestingly Mullins was catchable Saturday, if the syringe and it's contents were tested by HPLC or chromotography against an "Air Power" control. If you compared the pattern of the control to the syringe Mullins had Saturday and if additional spikes were present or isolated, it would prove he wasn't just using Air Power as the drug only turns to water if it comes in contact with mucus. My guess is Mullins isn't aware of that....

Now again the facts above are all legit but I have no insider knowledge that this is what actually Mullins did. I just wanted to lay out how easy it would be for him to pull this off in the Detention Barn last Saturday.


Boomer...Thx hope Gunner is doing well

paisjpq 04-10-2009 06:02 AM

Does it even matter WHAT he was trying to give the horse? I don't care if he was feeding a peppermint, the point is you can't give ANYTHING in the detention barn. And that's why he should be punished.

Danzig 04-10-2009 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq
Does it even matter WHAT he was trying to give the horse? I don't care if he was feeding a peppermint, the point is you can't give ANYTHING in the detention barn. And that's why he should be punished.

true.
but i think they should test the syringe, see just what was in there. perhaps his punishment could be extended beyond carrying a syringe and giving air power.

smuthg 04-10-2009 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3
This is exactly the point. Guanefisin is a mucolytic or a cough syrup which has absolutely zero measurable benefit to horses, humans or rodents like Mullins. The Air Power syringe HAD to be a decoy for something else he was giving. ...

Now again the facts above are all legit but I have no insider knowledge that this is what actually Mullins did. I just wanted to lay out how easy it would be for him to pull this off in the Detention Barn last Saturday.

Doc, great post...

Indian Charlie 04-10-2009 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
this is the first thing I found for salicylic acid

It is known for its ability to ease aches and pains and reduce fevers. The medicinal properties of salicylate, mainly for fever relief, have been known since ancient times, and it was used as an anti-inflammatory drug.

Salicylic acid is basically aspirin. It was originally derived from white willow bark.

Riot 04-10-2009 02:42 PM

I don't know why we are talking about guaifenisin (because I don't think Air Power has it, unless I missed something) - yes, it's used in cough syrups, but in the horse it's also used IV to help induce anesthesia. It acts centrally, relaxes the laryngeal and pharyngeal muscles, and is a mild sedative and analgesic. That's why it's a Class 4 drug in all horse sports, and NYRA has a 96 hour withdrawal time on it.

Alot of track horses have coughs, allergy, bronchitis - instead of being out in fresh air on green grass with their heads down all day (the way horses were designed to live, eat and drain), they are in comparatively airless stalls filled with dry hay and straw (and molds, and particulate matter) eating with their heads up. Then they workout on dirt tracks and get dirt kicked into their lungs.

Coughs, mucus, bronchitis is pretty common on the race track (in all stalled horses), so good trainers are always looking for a way to get a horse like this more air in a race. There are legal ways, and illegal ways.

Most of the "won't test" OTC stuff doesn't do much (as they don't have any pharmacologic action - which is why they "don't test" <g>)

That said, Mullins is a licensed trainer, he had no business with a syringe trying to give a horse anything in a detention barn. His arrogance and blaming of the security guards for his troubles is laughable to the extreme.

Mullins proves the adage, "They aren't crooks because they are smart."

I'd love to hear Dr. Rick Arthur's comment on Mullins saying he gives Air Power before races in CA all the time?

Bigsmc 04-10-2009 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq
Does it even matter WHAT he was trying to give the horse? I don't care if he was feeding a peppermint, the point is you can't give ANYTHING in the detention barn. And that's why he should be punished.

Thank you for bringing this thread back to reality.

:tro: :tro:


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