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I know this one has been overly thrashed already, but I just saw this article today and I had to post it. Excerpt from an article on ESPN,

"Circular Quay was bred by Doreen Tabor and is owned by Michael Tabor, the Englishman who won the 1995 Kentucky Derby with Thunder Gulch. In no small part because Thunder Gulch has become a proven sire at longer distances, Tabor's employees and associates who traveled to Churchill for the Bashford Manor, led by Demi O'Byrne, were ecstatic with the results."

It looks like those of us that were gushing about the way he won Saturday were in pretty good company.

You mean his owner and his employees liked him too????

Wow, he must be great.

I hear what you are saying...however, these guys aren't just any ownership group and the trip is a long one.

Yeah, they're always hyping their horses.

I'm sure they didn't make the trip just to see Circular Quay.

I'm not getting into this here but you either sort of know about Coolmore or you just don't.

and you don't.
They were here for a shopping trip and to watch the World Cup on American soil. LOL

That's a good one. I'm also sure they tempered their excitement and started to wring their hands when it came back an 83 beyer.

I might be ignorant but I give extra consideration to horses that close into a slow pace ie this one. Not speaking BC or Derby but CQ has impressed the hell out of me depite Andy Beyer.

You think they aren't acutely aware that his numbers were mediocre?

If so, you have now called them stupid, and that is one thing they aren't.

Now it was a slow pace? Please explain that in relation to the other six furlong races and their respective paces. You may also want to explain how the #1 horse closed from Lexington after getting completely left at the gate if the pace was indeed slow ( which it wasn't ).

By the way, I highly doubt any legitimate speed figures gave him a good number. Considering his ground saving trip I doubt Ragozin or Brown rated him particularly highly either.

How can anyone get hung up on the Beyer in July-good, bad, or ugly- of the 2yo season is beyond me. For the record, Thunder Gulch's (CQ's sire) first five races were Beyers of 69, 82,79,79,89. His numbers went up with distance, something that I would expect with this colt when he ran for the first time over a mile winning the Remsen.

In dirt races, I do not think it's all that impressive to close into slow fractions, usually means that the competition was not good enough to keep going if the pace was slow, I think it's a negative. I do not really have an opinion either way on CQ yet, all that I can say is that he has not lost and it's hard to fault a winner....

then bet against him with both hands next time out. That's why we have mutual pools.

Of course I'm likely to bet against him, though I usually wait to make opinions on specific races until I've actually seen the pps and fields, but none of that has anything to do with you saying he closed into a slow pace which is absolutely inaccurate. You like this horse, fine, best of luck. But I think it would help if at least your reasons were based on truth.

I just hope the accountability police don't have to go on any far and wide searches if and when this horse tanks. I will be the first to admit I was wrong should he excel in the near future. I expect a little crow to be eaten should that not be the case. Funny I didn't see any of that from the posters who told me Keyed Entry, who I mocked, " should win ".

and Keyed entry after the FS race did what????

LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- Two-year-olds don't typically win early-season stakes with powerful inside rallies. But when Circular Quay prevailed that way Saturday in the Grade 3, $166,500 Bashford Manor Stakes at Churchill Downs, it was difficult not to believe the Thunder Gulch colt has an unlimited future.

Circular Quay, ridden by Rafael Bejarano, glided past four rivals in the final eighth of the six-furlong Bashford Manor, remaining unbeaten in two starts. The colt also won his only previous start, a June 15 maiden race at Churchill, in rallying fashion.

"I asked him, and in five jumps he was in the front," said Bejarano.

Circular Quay returned $4.40 as the favorite in a field of eight 2-year-olds. Shermanesque finished second, 1 1/4 lengths behind, followed by Run Alex Run and Teuflesberg. The winning time was 1:09.96 over a fast track.

Shermanesque, ridden by Brice Blanc, appeared to have the 105th Bashford Manor under control just inside the eighth pole when he surged past several rivals inside the eighth pole. But Circular Quay's late run was overpowering.

"I passed him very easily," said Bejarano, who won four other races Saturday.

Chace City, the 9-2 third choice, jumped the inside rail to lose all chance soon after the start, winding up sixth. Pegasus Wind, the 5-1 fourth choice for trainer D. Wayne Lukas, pressed the pace to midstretch before fading to fifth in his career debut.

Circular Quay was bred by Doreen Tabor and is owned by Michael Tabor, the Englishman who won the 1995 Kentucky Derby with Thunder Gulch. In no small part because Thunder Gulch has become a proven sire at longer distances, Tabor's employees and associates who traveled to Churchill for the Bashford Manor, led by Demi O'Byrne, were ecstatic with the results. Todd Pletcher is the trainer of Circular Quay.



and as far as accuracy police goes let whoever said this is Pletcher's 20th best 2 yr old post the 19 above him. LOL

Value Plus, anyone?....And I won money on him the other day.

You guys aren't the only ones that like Circular Quay. Gary Stevens on the bloodhorse


Wrightstown, NJ
If you could return to ride one horse currently running, who would it be?

Stevens
Two year old Circular Quay.

Uh-oh, that's bad news for Circular Quay, the hypemaster himself has spoken. Wonder who he's going to compare CQ to, maybe Point Given, Thunder Gulch, Silver Charm, Rock Hard Ten or one of the other 50 horses that he's labeled as a "great" or "best horse he's ever ridden".

Yeah, the Thunder Gulch connection makes him a little biased.

Not only that, but the guy goes out of his way to label horses as "great" or "best he's ever ridden", whenever he says something like that, it's in one ear out the other. I do think he and Bailey do a fine job as broadcasters, but he needs to tone down his emotions when it comes to labeling horses.

I havn't watched Circular Quay run, and havn't really paid much attentions to the two year olds so far this year.... But I found it interesting when I was reading the Bloodhorse's Talkin Horses with Gary Stevens yesterday, that he said if any horse would bring him out of retirement it would be Circular Quay.

GaryStevens couldn't get the mount if he wanted it
but that's not the real reason not to listen to him
he also said the same thing about Sinister Minister
after the BLUEGRASS S. @ Keeneland~!
if jockeys could handicap they wouldn't need agents
not that I don't like CQ, BTW

Stevens has also made several other bold comments over the years that I've seen him be way off the mark about, so I wouldn't make much of his latest comment....I like Gary...he's a pretty inteligent jockey and doesn't pull any punches and that makes him a very likeable figure in our sport IMO, but he has made some bad predictions like saying Chekov would win the Derby last year :D

However, he did say that Rock Hard Ten would never lose again when he left that clown's barn and went to Mandella, and he was right there....

However, he did say that Rock Hard Ten would never lose again when he left that clown's barn and went to Mandella, and he was right there....[/quote]


Yes he was. :)

wait a second...just because Jason Orman
is not a high profile trainer
that doesn't make him a clown
as Fonzie would say "that's not cool"
Sit on it, Mr. C!

However, he did say that Rock Hard Ten would never lose again when he left that clown's barn and went to Mandella, and he was right there....[/quote]


Real nice, I would say that "clown" was put under an extraordinary set of circumstances to get the horse in the Derby, didn't happen, but the owners kept pushing and I would say that he did a pretty good job under the constraints he was under. He would have never beat Smarty, no matter what, but it's no shame to run 2nd to him. And as for Mandella, I do not believe he is setting the world on fire right now....

I would love to know the people that pay this guy for analysis, he's got some knowledge, but not enough to be paid for...

I could be way off, but I think big colts like RHT and Strong Contender take longer to truly be able to handle their big frames. Impressive to the eye, but just a bit awkward.

my point being, hard to compare a 3yr old campaign to a 4 yr old campaign...

What exactly makes Jason Orman a clown? He got RHT to the big spring races in good shape and he wasn;t good enough.

So, Mandella improved him. That doesn't make Orman a clown. Though he's 35 years od or so, he's still just getting going as a public traimer. But he's got a great background, having worked for Currin as well as spending time overseas.

Who trains the Cunningham family stable's horses?

Would Mandella have a chance to improve your father's barn?

Does that make your dad's trainer a clown as well?

Just so ya know, I am only in this agreement because I meant that Gary was right that RH10 would never lose again after his crummy beginning to his three year old season. Now I don't know who to put the blame on: Trainer or owner. I wasn't in on the deal so I am not placing blame on anyone.

I think that the bigger colts need more time to "grow into themselves". I don't think you are off base on this way of thinking.

the term "clown" wasn't mine...I don't know the guy...maybe you should have heard the interview...

Real nice, I would say that "clown" was put under an extraordinary set of circumstances to get the horse in the Derby, didn't happen, but the owners kept pushing and I would say that he did a pretty good job under the constraints he was under. He would have never beat Smarty, no matter what, but it's no shame to run 2nd to him. And as for Mandella, I do not believe he is setting the world on fire right now....[/quote]

Don't crusify the messenger...it was on the radio with that host from Vegas when somebody on that show referred to the horse as "going from a clown stable to a crown stable"....not my words

Don't crusify the messenger...it was on the radio with that host from Vegas when somebody on that show referred to the horse as "going from a clown stable to a crown stable"....not my words[/quote]

My bad, I did not realize you were repeating what Stevens said, I apologize for that...

Again, NOT MY WORDS...the host was talking about the fact that Orman couldn't even get Rock Hard Ten to load into the gates, which is actually true if you remember the Preakness or Belmont and Haskell....

Oh you mean the wonderhorse who got beat about 50 lengths in 3 starts outside of cali?
That "clown" was forced to sit on the ae list before the Derby, then run a horse with three lifetime starts in the Preakness. The Belmont had nothing to with that "clown" unless you wanna get all over Solis for what he did to him.
By the way, umm, how many Tri Crown races has Mandella won? The same number as that "clown" zero. But the clown does have a 2nd place finish in a tri crown race, something Mandella doesn't have.
Are we supposed to believe that a guy who has never done squat with pretty nice horses in all those years in Tri Crown races would have done better than Jason Orman?

Yeha well mandella gets em to load, he just cant even hit the board in a tri crown race to save his life. Do me a favor, check out the millions of dollas in stock that mandella gets each year, and check out his dismal record with three year olds of any type, then get back to me. What a joke.