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The Indomitable DrugS 02-03-2007 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
The pace set up well for him and they did not come home fast on a track that seemed to be a tick or 2 fast. Not saying that he was fully cranked or trying to denigrate the horse but this was not some superior performance. It was a very good horse overcoming a bit of trouble while beating overmatched foes.
Feel free to blast me.

No, I agree with you to a large extent....his performance will be overrated.

While beating a very overmatched field on paper, He got a tremendous setup pace-wise, saved all the ground on a day when the rail was arguably the place to be, and though he had all that trouble on the far turn---it was not like he had to run all that fast through the final furlong to win.

Thirty minutes later, in a race run at the same distance, a 108/1 shot 3yo, who never had run a Beyer higher than 72 in his career, pressed the pace the entire way, and stayed on to win. The final furlong of that race was run in marginally faster time than the final 1/8th of the Invasor race.

As far as the ride by Kent D. on A.P. Arrow, I've seen him do that to many times, to many odds-on favorites trying to come inside of him....

Cannon Shell 02-03-2007 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS



As far as the ride by Kent D. on A.P. Arrow, I've seen him do that to many times, to many odds-on favorites trying to come inside of him....

He caused his own horse to be put in a bad spot by going apeshit at the 3/8ths when Invasor passed him.

Nikewed 02-03-2007 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Invasors problems were caused by Jara thinking about splitting 2 stopping 100-1 shots. I dont think that this race was as good as it looks because of the trouble. I mean he accelerated past 2 stopping horses and outfinished Penna's horse who wants no part of 1 1/8th, Hesanoldsalt who lost a ton of ground on the turn, and AP Arrow who also was steadied behind the stopping horses and was actually under the whip at the 3/8ths while behind Invasor. The pace set up well for him and they did not come home fast on a track that seemed to be a tick or 2 fast. Not saying that he was fully cranked or trying to denigrate the horse but this was not some superior performance. It was a very good horse overcoming a bit of trouble while beating overmatched foes.
Feel free to blast me.

I'm sorry, are you the only one who actually objectively watches races here?

The Bid 02-03-2007 07:36 PM

Had Invasor been wide like he should have been, he would have won by 10 and I doubt Jara would have ever moved. That wasnt a good field, Invasor is a special horse.

He was simply too much horse for anything in there. He has a date with Destiny in Dubai.

The Indomitable DrugS 02-03-2007 07:36 PM

IMO, he was going apeshit that early to keep Invasor in.

Cannon Shell 02-03-2007 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
IMO, he was going apeshit that early to keep Invasor in.

Maybe but who knows what goes on in that guys mind

Nikewed 02-03-2007 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
IMO, he was going apeshit that early to keep Invasor in.

watch the headon

Danzig 02-03-2007 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man
watch the headon

apply directly to the forehead...

The Indomitable DrugS 02-03-2007 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man
watch the headon

I did....which only confirms what you see on the pan shot.

It's more telling on the pan shot, by the time they straighten away through the lane, the trouble had occured and Ap Arrow is tipped out. The head-on doesn't capture it as well.

AeWingnut 02-03-2007 07:59 PM

the race reminded me of a story my uncle liked to tell.

he asked a friend if horse X fell down who would win
he said horse X because he'll get back up and beat these bums.

I think Jara has some explaining to do. Invasor could have went to the outside rail got a hot dog and a coke and still beat these horses without the the theatrics

Invasor could have been injured or worse

The Indomitable DrugS 02-03-2007 08:15 PM

Not that we haven't seen this move from Kent many times before....

But, You'll notice him take a look behind him twice down the backstretch, and you'll notice him go to an all-out ride when Invasor gets about 1 1/4 lengths from him, while inside of him.

He didn't wait for Invasor to come to his horse.

To Desormeaux's credit, he rode over 800 mounts last year, and those mounts produced an 8% profit on the betting dollar. He was the only major circuit rider, who's mounts showed a flat bet profit on the betting dollar, in the year 2006.

He achieved that stat by scoring several big upsets throughout the year. There is no offical tally for total bonehead rides in 2006...but, he might top that as well if there was one. He tries to do more race-riding than just about everyone else--and he shakes things up in races as much as anyone.

Nikewed 02-03-2007 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I did....which only confirms what you see on the pan shot.

It's more telling on the pan shot, by the time they straighten away through the lane, the trouble had occured and Ap Arrow is tipped out. The head-on doesn't capture it as well.

DrugS, maybe Kent didn't give up his position quick enough for your liking.

However, he really rode that part of the race as well as he could. If he moves out when you want him to, he would be force to go around Chatain and Hesanoldsalt (and they entered the stretch 5 and 6, I believe).

By waiting, he enters INSIDE of Chatain but is still skunked as Hesanoldsalt decides to move in and he has to wait for a split second and go around that one. If he doesn't have to wait and angle out, if he gets a straight and clear run, he's easily 2nd.

Nikewed 02-03-2007 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
the race reminded me of a story my uncle liked to tell.

he asked a friend if horse X fell down who would win
he said horse X because he'll get back up and beat these bums.

I think Jara has some explaining to do. Invasor could have went to the outside rail got a hot dog and a coke and still beat these horses without the the theatrics

Invasor could have been injured or worse

So your premise is that getting stopped for a nanosecond and winning by 2 lengths,with, essentially a suck up rail trip throughout, equates to going 6 on the turn, 7 entering and winning going away?

Makes sense to me.

This is not to say he wasn't the best horse in the race. But, he's not as good as everyone thinks and the field basically sucked; and he certainly didn't have anywhere near the trouble raised here.

The Indomitable DrugS 02-03-2007 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man
If he moves out when you want him to, he would be force to go around Chatain and Hesanoldsalt.

Oh, I'm not saying he rode a bad race....not at all.

In fact, an arguement could be that he rode a tremendous race...albeit a very, very, very agressive one........

Gander 02-03-2007 08:52 PM

Hes the real deal. You dont see acceleration from horses like that every weekend. Hes a special one and I am finally convinced. Too bad I couldnt cash as a result but I do know how to identify a truly wonderful horse and he is one.

Sightseek 02-03-2007 09:01 PM

all I have to say is, Thank You Shadwell for keeping this horse in training! :)


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