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-   -   Another breakdown at Turfway (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7632)

SCUDSBROTHER 12-10-2006 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
We'll see. I expect many good grass horses to try "dirt" in the future and lessen the quality and depth of the grass races.
I think you will see us getting a lot of Euro horses,and they will try both surfaces.They have options over here now.There are a lot of people with good(not great)turf horses in Europe,and you can be sure they will be wondering if they can take to the cushion track like Foxysox did.

King Glorious 12-10-2006 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
By "dirt", do you mean synthetic surface, or actual dirt? I agree we'll see more turf horse trying synthetic, but not enough to the point where turf is obsolete. Hey sometimes the turf horse end up liking turf, poly and dirt like Asi Siempre.
I mean the synthetic stuff.

philcski 12-10-2006 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
You mean like a horse like St Stephen who cant stand up on dirt winning a graded stakes race on Polytrack like he just did?
yeah, I mean thats just another example of how this stuff has no relationship to dirt whatsoever.
How can you say for certain that St Stephen can't run on dirt?? he's run TWICE on it (hitting the board once), and not since he was 2, and he's a full brother to a dirt champion. I think it's kind of ridiculous to say he can't run on dirt.

blackthroatedwind 12-10-2006 09:10 PM
Saint Stephen will remain....all he lost he shall regain.

philcski 12-10-2006 09:33 PM
"Seashore washed by the suds and foam,
Been here so long he's got to calling it home."

ArlJim78 12-10-2006 09:40 PM
But what would be the answer to the answer man?

SCUDSBROTHER 12-10-2006 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
How can you say for certain that St Stephen can't run on dirt?? he's run TWICE on it (hitting the board once), and not since he was 2, and he's a full brother to a dirt champion. I think it's kind of ridiculous to say he can't run on dirt.
If you felt as good as these C. Clement horses,you could run on broken glass.

philcski 12-10-2006 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
If you felt as good as these C. Clement horses,you could run on broken glass.
He's a damn good trainer. Always wins at 20%, and I can't think of a single time he's been implicated (or even been suspected) for any funny business.

blackthroatedwind 12-10-2006 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
He's a damn good trainer. Always wins at 20%, and I can't think of a single time he's been implicated (or even been suspected) for any funny business.
I'm confused, did this dude suggest Cristophe is a cheater?

That's funny. Sad....but funny. We got plenty of cheaters in NY but he isn't one of them.

SCUDSBROTHER 12-10-2006 10:15 PM
Hay, oats, and water....

philcski 12-11-2006 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
I'm confused, did this dude suggest Cristophe is a cheater?

That's funny. Sad....but funny. We got plenty of cheaters in NY but he isn't one of them.
Hmmm... rereading it, it's somewhat ambiguous. Scudsbrother, care to qualify?

todko 12-11-2006 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
We need to get one thing straight...Marty Collins has never said that PolyTrack is "maintenance free." Keeneland and Marty Collins have all said the following; "Minimum maintenance is required compared to a conventional dirt track because the Polytrack surface needs less watering and less harrowing." No where in this statement does it state that PolyTrack is "maintenance free." You can get this quote from Marty Collins web site and here is the link: http://www.polytrack.com/advantages.html. Also, if you click on the below link you can view the PowerPoint presentation to the California Horsemen....http://www.polytrack.com/presentation/index.html. You should be not getting any other info from PloyTrack from anywhere else other than Keeneland or Marty Collins.
They also never said that tracks had to do serious renovations to the surface -- like scraping the top 3 inches (March 2006) and spending even more money revising the top layer with spandex and cable coverings like TP did this summer.

And "Marty" as you call him clearly lied when he said the surface was "low kickback".

If you get information from Keeneland and Martin "Marty" Collins :rolleyes: you'll never get the complete truth. They are in the business to sell Poly pure and simple.

todko 12-11-2006 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
yeah easier, and I wonder if anyone ever gets a nice Christmas present for steering a 12 million dollar contract someplace.
Not much money in dirt you know?
Thats my point Richi, How come for years noone at these tracks "cared about" the horse welfare and just didn't spend 1/4 the cost of the poly on a new safe dirt surface?
My suspicions stem from the fact that as soon as there was a whole lotta cash in it, people all of sudden cared so much.
How come keeneland never put in a new dirt surface for YEARS to replace the surface that was very criticized?
All of a sudden they cared? And it had nothing to do with money?
I'm willing to bet that a lotta folks get some nice stocking stuffers this year.
Very well said. Poly was originally sold as "saving $500,000 in yearly maintenance costs". Now it's sold as saving horses. The jury is still out on that.

It was also sold as having a 10 year lifespan. That may be true on gallops or training tracks but highly doubtful for a racetrack.

Turfway had an extremely mild winter in '05 and '06. They wouldn't have had to cancel days even if they kept the dirt surface -- yet they ignore that fact and say it was the poly that saved racing days. Total misinformation. They also ignore the fact that the weather (also FG being closed) helped handle.

We'll see this season how the poly reacts to tough weather. So far it doesn't look good.

todko 12-11-2006 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
I am only going to focus on #4. The maintenance costs have been reduced by 58% at Turfway.
And they didn't factor in the cost of scraping it in March and also re-doing the entire track over the summer. Supposedly Martin Collins LLC covered that cost. TP and Martin Collins LLC are affiliated companies -- through Keeneland.

jpops757 12-11-2006 09:19 AM
If you would research, everyone would know. The nigerians have a regestered toxic dump site for old used tires,condoms and tennis shoes{they actually get paid to accept these items]. They have set up a recycling process and selling it as ,poly,cushion orwhatever you want to call it and ripping the hated US.

King Glorious 12-11-2006 09:20 AM
When u just think of one fact, u realize it's all a sham. Turfway put it in to save racing dates and make more money. Period. It had NOTHING to do with safety for the horses. That they try to put it off as they were doing something in the interest of horse safety is what I really hate. This was all about business.

eurobounce 12-11-2006 09:23 AM
The kickback is nothing at Turfway. I will admit that it looks bad on TV. However, I was at Turfway on Sunday and the kickback is really nothing. In fact, it is less severe than dirt. Ask any jock, the kickback (which there is) is like snow hitting you and then falling off. It isnt like pelts of dirt hitting you. That is the difference in kickback.


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