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oracle80 11-28-2006 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
Too bad they were between his 3yo season and his 5yo season. My question is this: Did you or anyone else think, when he debuted at 4 in the Tom Fool that he was a HOY candidate? Or was it the stellar win over 3 allowance horses in the Iselin slop that sealed the greatness?
His "great races" were intermittant. When he was good he was very good.

Actually I and many others thought he was a HOY candidate for 2004 after he destroyed that field in the Vosburgh in 2003 with one of the greatest moves you will ever see.
His Tom Fool was excellent, and his Iselin fit the spacing of what he was trying to do and certainly was never claimed by anyone to be one of his career highlights.
His Woodward against next year's HOY St Liam was an incredible display of courage and speed and fight, and his BCC was just mindblowing.
His Met Mile was extraordinary, and since it was off a long layoff with no prep, it was just an incredible display of sheer raw talent.
He lost two races in his life, one when he hurt his foot and had to be layed off, and one where he flew home to be narrowly beaten agaisnt one of the most powerful inside speed biases you will ever see at the racetrack.
He won at 2,3,4, and 5, many different distances, and many different tracks.

I really didn't need to see him run another ten races to know how good he was, none of his contemporarues were gonna beat him anyway.
He had true class, the ability to fly home from dead last or stalk or go straight to lead or rip out their hearts with a turn move. There wasn't anything he couldn't do.

oracle80 11-28-2006 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Thank you.

Wait, are you over 30? I'm not sure if I can agree with that statement unless you were hanging out with Mike at the OTB while I was watching Sesame Street.

Why did I guess that only you would react that way to that statement?
You really illustrate again what I'm talking about.
It wasn't a knock as to the intelligence of or knowledge of younger race fans that I was alluding to. Its something you will get someday, its called perpective.
Look, its like this: I have read all about the great depression and the effects it had on America and how people suffered. But no matter how much I read and research, I'm never gonna understand it like people who lived through it.
You just can't convey all the nuances and details in a book, you hadda be there.
I actually think guys like you and Randall would jizz in your jeans if you guys could have experienced racing in the 80's, if I had soome of the old Racing Forms I saved for years and years that were in my parents basement until they moved in 1994 and they got thrown out I would send them to you.
The grade ones used to have large and contested fields and we had rivalries.
Thats what I'm trying to say.
Guys tell me all the time about the 60's and 70's with Kelso, Affirmed, Dr Fager, Kelso, Forego, Seattle Slew, Alydar and Affirmed., Spectacular Bid, Secretariat, Buckpasser, etc.
When Secretariat ran I was watching Sesame Street!!!!!!
I've read about all those horses, and appreciate what I've read, but the guys who saw them REALLY know those horses, and their opinion on them is always gonna be better than mine, and their definition of great is always gonna be different than mine as well.
Someday, you will be talking like this to younger folks yourself.

philcski 11-28-2006 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
Too bad they were between his 3yo season and his 5yo season. My question is this: Did you or anyone else think, when he debuted at 4 in the Tom Fool that he was a HOY candidate? Or was it the stellar win over 3 allowance horses in the Iselin slop that sealed the greatness?
His "great races" were intermittant. When he was good he was very good.

Actually I did, and said as such.

And he didn't disappoint me.

You know why only 3 showed up in the Iselin? Because they were AFRAID! And all he did was run a ridiculously fast race in which nobody in the world would have beaten him in. So those that stayed away made the right decision.

ateamstupid 11-28-2006 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
Someday, you will be talking like this to younger folks yourself.

I sincerely hope not. If become as pompous as you, hopefully someone will shoot me.

philcski 11-28-2006 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
Actually I and many others thought he was a HOY candidate for 2004 after he destroyed that field in the Vosburgh in 2003 with one of the greatest moves you will ever see.
His Tom Fool was excellent, and his Iselin fit the spacing of what he was trying to do and certainly was never claimed by anyone to be one of his career highlights.His Woodward against next year's HOY St Liam was an incredible display of courage and speed and fight, and his BCC was just mindblowing.
His Met Mile was extraordinary, and since it was off a long layoff with no prep, it was just an incredible display of sheer raw talent.
He lost two races in his life, one when he hurt his foot and had to be layed off, and one where he flew home to be narrowly beaten agaisnt one of the most powerful inside speed biases you will ever see at the racetrack.
He won at 2,3,4, and 5, many different distances, and many different tracks.

I really didn't need to see him run another ten races to know how good he was, none of his contemporarues were gonna beat him anyway.
He had true class, the ability to fly home from dead last or stalk or go straight to lead or rip out their hearts with a turn move. There wasn't anything he couldn't do.

I thought it was, actually, especially considering it was the first time he stretched out around 2 turns (which, despite being sired by a BCC winner, some questioned his ability to do so) It was maybe the fastest race I've ever seen in person. To put it in perspective, the 6th race and 7th races were divisions of a N1X allowance at a mile and a sixteenth, and they went (strangely) in the identical time of 1:46.17, both coming home from the 5/16ths pole in about 33.5 seconds. GZ went 1:47.66 for a mile and an eighth- which means he literally would have won by a POLE over the allowance fields!


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