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-   -   Who was closer to the Triple Crown...Smarty or Alex? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5710)

Seattleallstar 10-16-2006 01:10 PM
hey Oracle ive mellowed out as of late, I think im a new man

oracle80 10-16-2006 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
How would you explain a horse like Saint Liam then? He only ran his best numbers if heavily pressed (not that his others sucked).
I don't know that I agree with that.
His Foster was freaky fast on the sheets and he "jogged" in that race.

Bold Reasoning 10-16-2006 01:10 PM
We all have our own opinions on particular horses, but to digress... I believe Bernardini will run huge in the BCC. Even the conservatives admire and respect this horse; people like Mike Watchmaker and Todd Pletcher are on the list. :)

oracle80 10-16-2006 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattleallstar
hey Oracle ive mellowed out as of late, I think im a new man
I've heard this same story 1000 times. Go a month without a meltdown for a change and then we can talk about you being a new man. I sure wouldn't bet money on that.

Seattleallstar 10-16-2006 01:17 PM
I dont like or care to hear from Ashley anymore, ive had it

Cajungator26 10-16-2006 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattleallstar
I dont like or care to hear from Ashley anymore, ive had it
We shall see... you are a glutton for punishment.

oracle80 10-16-2006 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattleallstar
I dont like or care to hear from Ashley anymore, ive had it
Gee it only took you 4 years to see she couldn't care less about you?
I can tell you that we couldn't care less about her as well.
The fact that you still speak about her constantly means your obsession is alive and well.
Make sure you have your meds stocked up.

dalakhani 10-16-2006 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bold Reasoning
I am not trying to refute what you said or argue with you. I have only one point to make. I was at the Travers in 2004. It started raining about twenty minutes before the Travers; my husband and I were caught in the deluge as we walked to the track. We needed a row boat to navigate. I think the race was even run several minutes early, so we could not bet! We had just gotten to the track as it was being run. I had bet Birdstone in the Belmont, so I was going to put him in some big exactas. Anyway, my only point is that track seemed very off, so Birdstone won on a pea soup track that day.
I think your memory is a little bit off. I was at the track all day that day. Yes, there was a storm but it didnt start until AFTER the race. There was no soupy track. Now, it was pretty much a monsoon after it started but the race began as the dark clouds rolled ominously in and the thunder was crackling.

Yes, it began a few minutes before schedule and they loaded QUICKLY but that was to ensure that they did run on a dry track. Im sure you can find the find replay somewhere.

oracle80 10-16-2006 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalakhani
I think your memory is a little bit off. I was at the track all day that day. Yes, there was a storm but it didnt start until AFTER the race. There was no soupy track. Now, it was pretty much a monsoon after it started but the race began as the dark clouds rolled ominously in and the thunder was crackling.

Yes, it began a few minutes before schedule and they loaded QUICKLY but that was to ensure that they did run on a dry track. Im sure you can find the find replay somewhere.

Track was dry and fast for that race. Pea Soup? Do you have alzheimer's?

Sightseek 10-16-2006 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
I don't know that I agree with that.
His Foster was freaky fast on the sheets and he "jogged" in that race.
Did they adjust the Beyer for his race against Zapper? I thought it was higher than 114, which tied his best two performances while having the race all to himself:

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/saintliam.pdf

The Whitney was obscene. It is funny how people seem all the more ready to crown Bernardini as great and hated on Saint Liam when Bernie hasn't run a race like SL.

eurobounce 10-16-2006 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
The whip will get you a length, tops, according to the finest jockeys.
Its a fallacy that the whip can get you so many lengths.
Also, most horses run best when they are free and running how they wanna run with no pressure alongside of them.
Its a different story when another horse gets in your face and you have to quicken NOW instead of when you wanna quicken.
I can't recall too many horses who "jogged" in a big stakes race who then came back and ran better in a dogfight.
If anyone can, name them.
Whip will get you about 1 length is very accurate I believe. I have heard some say it can get you 2 at times.

SniperSB23 10-16-2006 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
Did they adjust the Beyer for his race against Zapper? I thought it was higher than 114, which tied his best two performances while having the race all to himself:

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/saintliam.pdf

The Whitney was obscene. It is funny how people seem all the more ready to crown Bernardini as great and hated on Saint Liam when Bernie hasn't run a race like SL.
I know on the equibase numbers that the Woodward was right up there with Ghostzapper's best figure wise. The Beyer came in low, I'd guess in part because at the time no one believed Saint Liam was capable of running a 120 figure so just assumed GZ ran a poor race (by his standards).

oracle80 10-16-2006 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
Did they adjust the Beyer for his race against Zapper? I thought it was higher than 114, which tied his best two performances while having the race all to himself:

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/saintliam.pdf

The Whitney was obscene. It is funny how people seem all the more ready to crown Bernardini as great and hated on Saint Liam when Bernie hasn't run a race like SL.
His Whitney was indeed pretty sensational.
So was his Woodward.
So were a lot of his races.

philcski 10-16-2006 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by repent
you are a freaking moron.

the Travers track was listed as "fast".
the rain came after the race that day.

but Im not even sayng The Stone hated an off track.
what I am saying is that the one time they met on a dry track, The Stone beat him.
new to the sport?
maybe, depends on perspective.
but the verification of your expertise relies on someone else, anyone else, agreeing with your opinion.
what the hell kind of sense does that make.
I oay the b*tch next door to say that Birdstone was a better horse.
that does not make it any more true or false.

and you want me to find a "credible" person to say that Birdstone was not the recipient of a "dream trip"?
what makes someone credible and what encompasses a dream trip?
does someone on this board with x amount of posts make them credible?
do they need to be a full time writer with the Daily Racing Form?
or can they be a degenerate at Manor Downs that i see when I stop by to pick up a form?


your position is full of holes and all the smarty party agreeing with you will not make it any stronger.

Birdstone got the right pace scenario he needed to be most effective on Belmont Stakes day.
so what?
it does not make his win any less valid than if smarty jones had won the race while getting an easy lead.

stop worrying about my experience within the game or my historical perspective.
they are not relevant to the argument at hand.

like I said, nothing has changed but the surrounding bullsh*t that has grown.
Ed was right on point with that one.



Repent
Did you even WATCH the travers that day?? it was pouring rain during the race so hard they actually MOVED THE START UP 3 MINUTES, costing NYRA likely a million in handle. The track was soup. But you wouldn't know that since you play at MANOR freakin' DOWNS... is that really a racetrack?!? do they have TV's there or do they broadcast the simulcast over a shortwave radio??

Someday you'll grow up. I hope.

oracle80 10-16-2006 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
Whip will get you about 1 length is very accurate I believe. I have heard some say it can get you 2 at times.
I've never heard more than 1 but you get the point anyways.

eurobounce 10-16-2006 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
Did they adjust the Beyer for his race against Zapper? I thought it was higher than 114, which tied his best two performances while having the race all to himself:

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/saintliam.pdf

The Whitney was obscene. It is funny how people seem all the more ready to crown Bernardini as great and hated on Saint Liam when Bernie hasn't run a race like SL.
You are missing the point--he hasnt needed to run a race like that is the point. He is so good that his less than best performance is good enough to win by open lengths.

oracle80 10-16-2006 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
Did you even WATCH the travers that day?? it was pouring rain during the race so hard they actually MOVED THE START UP 3 MINUTES, costing NYRA likely a million in handle. The track was soup. But you wouldn't know that since you play at MANOR freakin' DOWNS... is that really a racetrack?!? do they have TV's there or do they broadcast the simulcast over a shortwave radio??

Someday you'll grow up. I hope.
Well I don't play manor Downs and was right there. It rained 20 minutes before the race briefly, then cleared up briefly, the minute they hit the line it was indeed pouring but the track was fast with no top water for the race.
If they hand't moved up the post 3 minutes it would have been run in slop.
But the track was fast, I saw the race and watched it live, not on tv.

dalakhani 10-16-2006 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
Did you even WATCH the travers that day?? it was pouring rain during the race so hard they actually MOVED THE START UP 3 MINUTES, costing NYRA likely a million in handle. The track was soup. But you wouldn't know that since you play at MANOR freakin' DOWNS... is that really a racetrack?!? do they have TV's there or do they broadcast the simulcast over a shortwave radio??

Someday you'll grow up. I hope.
I was there. It was dry and fast. They moved it up so it would start before the rains came.

Sightseek 10-16-2006 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
You are missing the point--he hasnt needed to run a race like that is the point. He is so good that his less than best performance is good enough to win by open lengths.
I guess that is where Bernardini's competition supports the "but, who did he beat?" folks. Would he run faster if facing a Ghostzapper or have we seen Bernie's best?

oracle80 10-16-2006 01:31 PM
http://horseracing.about.com/od/late...racing+results

Note the part that says:
The rain held off until after the race. Then, the storm came with such fury that New York Racing Association officials cancelled the day's 12th and final race.



Sorry, the track was fast.


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