[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]
Well Scuds, that is the sad reality of this game. Honestly, as a bettor, we dont really notice the infractions caused by these trainers. All we see is who is training big and we just ride thier wave and bet them.

I agree thier SHOULD be much more harsh punishments for these trainers but the industry wont do anything about it. Why? I do not know. This has been going on pretty much since the 70's but more prevalent now. Its a cancer

At least mine are also funny at times.

Rosario with another fine ride in the 5th...this guy is a riot to watch ride. this guy is married to the rail when chasing dead speed.

Emerald Downs call yet Vic ?????

LOL

Give it a rest,dude.You're embarassing yourself.

You aren't kidding.

Watch him.....he is the worst :D

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]Optional claiming races are allowance races with one extra condition, allowing horses who have already cleared the condition to run, if they will go in for a tag. Allowance races are used by trainers to test their horses, to see if they are good enough to take the next step up, to stakes races. So for a horse to go from an allowance race (especially off a win) to run decently in a stakes race is not unprecedented. What had Life is Sweet won before the El Encino last out? A maiden and a n1x allowance.

As to Peace Chant, his stakes record reads - At 3 2nd San Vicente H (G2); At 4 2nd Los Angeles H (G3); At 6 won Phoenix Gold Cup. He looks like another Arson Squad, a horse whose form slipped when synthetics were installed and who woke up again when on real dirt. He's only managed a few starts a year so is obviously fragile, but he has shown flashes of brilliance in the past. Not surprising when you realize that Safely Kept is his mum.

Somebody slam a pie in her face.

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]I am not going to defend Oneill but Peace Chant made all the sense in the world in the Phoenix Gold Cup from many handicapping angles.

1. he was going back to dirt
2. he is a much better sprinter than router
3. Oneill footed the bill to go all the way to Phx with his own horse
4. That really was not much more of a field then the 62 claimer he was just in

I posted these all the thread for those stakes at Tup last week and bet this horse.

Since it wasn't a graded stakes, they probably don't have to give them the "super tests" that the graded stakes committee mandates. Do they even test CO2 levels at Turf Paradise? He probably took him over there to skirt something. He might of liked dirt more, but he most likely took him there to cheat. He's twice been caught. He's probably cheated 200x for each instance that he's been caught. Not like they're really looking very hard.

Peace Chant was entered in the Barrets sale with a bunch of Jess Jacksons horses , Mandella got more money for the horse than he would have brought at auction. The horse was leaving the barn one way or another , be it at the sale or a claiming race, so there you have the whole scoop, let the crap slinging continue.

LOL well crap I didnt mean to ruin your hearty discussion.....

Would you say the substantial increase in speed figure(compared to the effort he got the day he was claimed) is due to the change to dirt? He switched from dirt to Synthetic before, and didn't get the huge drop in performance these people's line of reasoning would suggest. It's not like he ran poorly when he switched from dirt to the synthetic in May of 07. That's not the poor performance (going to synthetic from dirt) that they keep suggesting he has. That figure is about the same as the previous race on dirt. Then, he was off a year, and never showed the same level of ability he had shown. If he had run poorly in that 1st race on synthetic, then I would understand that line of reasoning. To me, it's a mask for their cheating(since the new trainer has been caught atleast twice, and Mandella was caught when?... exactly ??) Mandella gets nice horses, and trains them in a conservative/traditional manor. When they aren't as good as they were(or the owner wants out,) then they get claimed, or bought, by a cheater, and get moved up to stakes wins. One cheats n' the other doesn't. You've seen this happen twice in the last 5 or 6 weeks. If Mandella isn't milkshaking at all, and these other guys are running 35-36 CO2, then they are probably gunna move up. I don't know if Turf Paradise is even testing CO2. If they don't, then who knows how high they run them.

I think the switch to dirt made a huge diffirence with this horse because he is big and heavy and thick winded. I think the drop in class shipping to Turf Paradise helped him also because even when you run for optional claiming in California it still beats the **** out of any good stake horse they have in Arizona ......still to me the switch to dirt was the biggest help , that being
said Im sure whatever else Doug does to get a horse to a race doesnt hurt either;) .

See, that's why I'm asking about the synthetic effort in the LOS ANGELES HANDICAP in May of '07. That's atleast as good an effort as he had in his previous race on dirt. I don't see the huge switch in performance that everyone is speaking of. Also, if Mandella thought he was much better on dirt, then why didn't he ship to get dirt? Doesn't seem like he thought he had that stakes ability left on any surface.

Not stakes ability for around these parts.

Well my boy, Presidental Cause won alittle stake at TP yesterday, so that should tell ya how tough it is there.lol

Actually I think the boy is a girl.

Details...

And they made those horses run 1 and 5/8ths miles for 15,000
dollars... Good God!

OMG my head is spinning.

OK here goes in no partiucular order.

1. Joel is a professional athlete competeing at an elite level. That's hard. Sometimes mistakes will be made. Brett Favre throws interceptions. Albert Pujols goes 0 for 5 with 4 k's. This game is about failure. Lose 7 of 10 for your career and you're in the Hall Of Fame.

2. The race in question is especially annoying because it was a 2 way division of the same race. I was named on White Lace Jimmy had he drawn in the opposite end of the split Joel could very well have ridden both winners. Stuff like that happens everyday. Just part of the job.

3. Was it a bad ride? If you want to say that I won't argue. Of course if he gets through everystep he's a hero. Well actually not because in my opinion no matter what happened he was going to finish no better than 2nd. Glatt's horse was a beast. I don't think Lacotah could have held him off. Of course we'll never know for sure.

4. As for Joel being off to Emerald or Yavipai. I don't think so. Last year at this meeting he won 49 races. This year he has 46 and we haven't hit March. He's third in the standings behind two superstar riders. He's 5th nationally in purse money. We're both every proud of that and IMO he's only going to improve with more experience. There's not a trainer he can't ride for. I'm not quite sure what more should be expected at this point.

5. I'm not sure what my being a gambler has to do with Joel's decision making in the heat of the battle. I'll make a bet every now and then but I make my living as an agent and announcer. I have a rooting interest in every race Joel rides so I don't really see the point of betting.

All the best.

VJS