I didnt say bad days, I just said days where he didnt run his best. Sure, Big Brown's Belmont was way worse than any race Curlin ever ran, true dat. I know Curlin had a very tough trip in the KY Derby, and for him to finish 3rd was pretty darn good. Didnt he have a perfect trip in the Belmont though, and still lost?

I thought his FL Derby win from post 12 and Kentucky Derby win from post 20 were pretty great.

No horse has won a route from post 12 at Gulfstream in how many years and BB did it in the biggest race at the track? Let alone the Kentucky Derby from the IMPOSSIBLE post. I think that is a great accomplishment.

He got beaten a neck by a horse that's way better than anybody Big Brown has faced. Plus, consider that it was his sixth start since February, three weeks after running his eyeballs out to beat Street Sense in the Preakness. Do you think Big Brown would've done better in that situation?

what if hard spun would have stayed around..would curlin look so good now..

I agree with everything you're saying except for this - for the simple fact that Curlin and Any Given Saturday had very similar trips. Curlin was only a length or two behind AGS for most of the race and the two of them were right next to each other at the top of the stretch. If anything Albarado may have moved too soon on Curlin, but I think it's fair to say that Curlin had a bit of an off day in the Haskell - even if it was still an ok performance.

The things that Dutrow said about Curlin are really ridiculous and absurd - you'd think that he would be smart enough to keep his mouth shut this time. I especially enjoyed "Curlin got beat by a filly, we didn't." Well, Dick, you got beat by the whole field in that same race the next year - including a maiden. And "Our horse in undefeated on the grass. Curlin isn't." Aside from the fact that he wasn't "your" horse when he won his ONE start on grass, that was in a MSW vs. nobody while Curlin's was in a Grade 1 vs. two BC winners.

I dont really know. Its impossible to say. I was surprised Big Brown bounced back so quick (2 weeks) to crush the field in the Preakness. I dont think you are giving him enough credit for 2 reasons:

His lack of comeptition (not his fault)
His no show in the Belmont (still a question as to why)

Look, he was all out to win the Haskell, so maybe he is all done. But you have to be impressed with a horse who won from those outside posts in the Florida Derby and KY Derby. I dont care who he beat.

I think Curlin's competition was indeed very good so its obviously a no brainer that most think Curlin is the better horse (myself included). But I wouldnt ridicule those who think Big Brown is as good.

I might get in trouble for saying this.. and I love Rags to Riches as much as anyone!

But this is just a question I am wondering your opinion... especially since I know how you feel about Rags too... How much better is Rags to Riches than Eight Belles??

I completely forgot about Curlin's Haskell. I didnt think it was a good effort at all. But he gets a free pass because Any Given Saturday and Hard Spun ran
first and second and they were great horses.

:tro:

The filly and mare division is tough this year, better than the boys I think.

by daylight...

This'll be fun:

Eight Belles vs. Rags to Riches

Rags

not interested in answering this o.e.y??? or do you actually have a life unlike me..

I never said anything bad about Rags to Riches. I said she wasn't a 'monster'. She was definitely better than Eight Belles.

It was impossible to make up ground that day/weekend. Any Given Saturday just ran a gigantic race and I think it helped knock him out for the rest of the year.

LOL, it was the only time I ever needed Curlin to win from a wagering standpoint. I thought he had every chance to win and great horses overcome track biases. Just look at Ghostzapper in the Kings Bishop. If there was ever a more speed biased track than that day, I'd like to hear about it. I know he lost the race but he sure made up a ton of ground.

No jacket and too cheap to hire a groom

Don't look for an anti-Ghostzapper argument from me. :D

those were his best performances, for sure. but what recent derby winner could not have beat that field this year, from any post? remember most horses in the field had best beyer figs of mid nineties. do you think Barbaro or Street Sense or Hard Spun would have any problem?

I remember you being a huge fan. I didnt like the fact he only ran 4-5 times a year, but man, he could turn heads. What a turn of foot from any position in the pack.