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-   -   Bless You George Washington... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17715)

sumitas 10-29-2007 09:25 PM

The general issue is integrity and safety of the horse and rider. American horse racing does have a bad reputation for lack of safety and the over use of drugs. Full disclosure of any horse at auction must be enforced and the sooner the better.

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
Jim,

It is a slap at US racing.. and one well-meant. And deserved. We're an embarassment on the International front in regards to our allowing tons of pharmaceutical enhancements in our horses, not to mention hidden foal surgeries and steroids in our sales yearlings/2yo's, etc.. It's a system totally skewed to greed that's hastened the deterioration of the quality of the racing and is undermining of the integrity of the breed.

And they do lead the way and don't need to run their races on polytrack... They're running on turf except at the all-weather/all-season locales. The comments should be taken seriously because they reflect the contempt that's out there for what is an increasingly inferior product on track in this country. That's fueled by increasingly fragile horses that are babied by the training community due to the need of the owners to feed right back into the perverted financial machine of the breeding side. It's a vicious circle.

Coolmore and Darley are not American based outfits...

Personally I dont care what the euros or others think. They have no problem coming over for our races and the big money purses. They have no problems coming over and buying our breeding stock and yearlings. Sheik Mo has no problem since he is focused so much on the American market in recent years in both breeding and racing. They have no problem taking our money for their castoffs especially the ones who need medication like Lasix. They have no problem when so many of their riders (ex boys/girls) come over here looking for better opportunites. They never particularly cared about dirt racing until now.

Maybe they should look into their own system of racing outside the top stakes where 1/2 the field isn't even trying in order to get a lower handicap. Our leading jockey is not on trial for race fixing. Maybe they should try to fix their own house where maidens run for crap purses. Maybe they should have theri own Breeders Cup and do with it whatever they want. Run it on turf, dirt, poly, fibresand, whatever.

Remind Jim Bolger that we dont need them, racing in this country did just fine pre breeders cup and pre polytrack.

I have no problem with the european tracks, horses, or horseman. As a matter of fact I like going over there and love Newmarket. But they have no right to tell us what to do or how to do it if they participate in a few select events a year.

By the way will Mr. Bolger be boycotting the Dubai festival because of that dreaded dirt?

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas
The general issue is integrity and safety of the horse and rider. American horse racing does have a bad reputation for lack of safety and the over use of drugs. Full disclosure of any horse at auction must be enforced and the sooner the better.

1 breakdown BC weekend...a euro (non drug) horse...


Does everyone think drugs in horses is a new thing?

ArlJim78 10-29-2007 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
Jim,

It is a slap at US racing.. and one well-meant. And deserved. We're an embarassment on the International front in regards to our allowing tons of pharmaceutical enhancements in our horses, not to mention hidden foal surgeries and steroids in our sales yearlings/2yo's, etc.. It's a system totally skewed to greed that's hastened the deterioration of the quality of the racing and is undermining of the integrity of the breed.

And they do lead the way and don't need to run their races on polytrack... They're running on turf except at the all-weather/all-season locales. The comments should be taken seriously because they reflect the contempt that's out there for what is an increasingly inferior product on track in this country. That's fueled by increasingly fragile horses that are babied by the training community due to the need of the owners to feed right back into the perverted financial machine of the breeding side. It's a vicious circle.

I still don't get what it has to do with George Washington. He is not part of the inferior product you are speaking about I assume, after all he was bred in Ireland. Our top horses by and large all had very solid healthy campaigns. Heck this year it would look like we're the model to follow, not to denigrate. I'm not saying there isn't a big problem, for sure there is. I don't know what the answers are to that though.

I would be more inclined to take it seriously if the remarks weren't made just after the superior euro's were shut out at the breeders cup by our inferior product, it just has the sound of sour grapes to me. It sounds like an attempt to blame America for this. maybe i'm reading to much into it but thats what I hear in those words.
Why was this the moment for Mr. Bolger to offer remedies for US racing?
Did he speak to the issue that George Washington didn't seem to belong in the race? was he really prepared for a 10F dirt race? I said over and over before the race that I didn't understand why the horse was running. It was the wrong distance, wrong surface, and the horse was obviously not currently at a competitive level with our top dirt routers.

Okay if we are to listen and take this seriously, are you in favor of running all future Classics on polytrack?

it just bothers me for anyone to use a particular breakdown to try to prove a complex point. what immediate conclusions should Americans have made about euro racing when Horatio Nelson was fatally injured in the Epsom Derby last year for the same connections? it was on turf and i guess no drugs were involved.

MisterB 10-30-2007 10:38 AM

Jim Bolger is a nut case
 
Irish Trainer: Breeders' Cup Shouldn't Be Run on Dirt

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41736

Scurlogue Champ 10-30-2007 10:42 AM

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory...750&source=rss

Coach Pants 10-30-2007 11:02 AM

Yeah lets keep listening to the Brits. Before you know it we'll all dress like this...


MisterB 10-30-2007 11:18 AM

Lets not run the triple crown on dirt either. Give me a break.

If GW won the race, the Brits would still be drunk

NoChanceToDance 10-30-2007 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB
Lets not run the triple crown on dirt either. Give me a break.

If GW won the race, the Brits would still be drunk

That was never going to happen.

brockguy 10-30-2007 02:13 PM

first of all big difference between brits and irish!! Bolger had said this before but obviously with the heightened media attention on dirt surrounding GWs passing, his comments and opinions have been re-raised. Its a controversial view and I dont neccessarily agree with it, but I certainly believe that he has every right to say it. Furthermore, Bolger has long campaigned for outriders at races over here, like ye guys do...

Each country has their own specific problems regarding racing and I think nations can learn from one another to try improve racing as a whole.

NoChanceToDance 10-30-2007 03:08 PM

This will stir the pot even further, but as many of you won't read Racing Post, i thought i would post it here. I'm sure this will also get some strong opinions from both ends of the scale......


by Andrew Scutts
.

MICHAEL DICKINSON leapt to the defence of Monmouth Park on Tuesday, while at the same time expressing "my wish that last Saturday is the last time the Breeders' Cup races will be run on dirt".

George Washington's death due to injuries sustained in the Classic, the second lowest Breeders' Cup attendance and a 43.5 per cent reduction year-on-year in on-course wagering, conspired to leave some observers questioning whether the event had lost its lustre.

Dickinson, the legendary British jumps trainer who moved to the US 20 years ago, has patented Tapeta - Latin for 'carpet' - an artificial surface which competes for business from racecourses and trainers with Polytrack and Cushion Track, among others.

His call for the end of Breeders' Cup races on traditional dirt surfaces must be viewed within that context, but his opinions on the dangers of running on a dirt track following heavy rain are widely held, including by Kempton's clerk of the course Brian Clifford.

Dickinson said: "The science behind the dirt track is over 100 years old and hopelessly outdated. It is well documented, by numerous scientific papers, that wet dirt tracks cause more injuries.

"This is reinforced by trainers' daily habits. On a typical US track, after rain there can be only four horses working. On day two of a sloppy track, there can still be only four horses working, but if day three is dry there will be 300 working.

"Some have suggested that racing on the sloppy dirt track last Saturday was not visually thrilling but, even more important, the betting handle was down by a huge amount. It became more of a guessing game."

Dickinson, though, suggested events at Monmouth Park constitute a one-off blip in the 24-year history of the Breeders' Cup.

He said: "No dirt track can be good after three inches of rain. Anywhere, in fact - Cheltenham, Ascot or Newmarket - is going to be a mess.
"Monmouth tried hard and put a lot of money into it, so you have to feel sorry for them. Only last week it was said we'd had the driest October in the US since 1923.

"Their track superintendent, Bob Juliano, is a good friend, and he did the best job possible underdeplorable conditions."

Dickinson added: "It was suggested that had it not been the Breeders' Cup, racing would have been cancelled, but that is not true - America races on sloppy tracks all the time. Only on very rare occasions do we cancel racing because of sloppy tracks."

Next year, the Breeders' Cup will be staged at Santa Anita, with the seven 'dirt' races to be run on a synthetic surface - Cushion Track - for the first time.

In July, the Breeders' Cup board will evaluate responses from racecourses interested in staging the 2009 and 2010 meetings, following their issuing of request for proposals (RFP) earlier this year.

The RFP was sent to leading venues in the US and overseas, though William Farish jnr, Breeders' Cup chairman, said lastweek that he "couldn't envision holding the Breeders' Cup overseas".

George Washington's ashes are to be buried at Coolmore's Ashford Stud in Kentucky, according to trainer Aidan O'Brien.

He said on Tuesday: "The last 48 hours have been very tough on everyone. Obviously, losing George was very sad, and a big blow to us all. Conditions at Monmouth Park were completely against our horses.

"Excellent Art and Achill Island both ran good races to finish second in the Mile and the Juvenile. We knew the weather and the ground wouldn't suit Dylan Thomas in the Turf, but we let him take his chance."

alysheba4 10-30-2007 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merasmag
wow...depressing, no mention of him at the breakfast?

.........what a disgrace.

Benevolus 10-30-2007 03:37 PM

You have to give Aiden O'Brien credit for coming over here. Those guys are real sportsman. Rarely do you see top american horses go over there, which is sort of sad.

However, you can't really knock dirt for the problem. If 5 or 6 horses brokedown that day then you have an argument, but one horse brokedown and that is just a very sad reality of the sport. Horses breakdown.

The fact is horses really aren't meant for racing on dirt or synthetic tracks. But maintaining a turf course is expensive and america decided they like dirt racing and that is what is primarily bred for.

The important thing is that horseman are constantly looking for ways to make racing safer for horses.

As for the in the sport, it is a problem because like anything you will eventually have unsound horses ting the breeding sheds, which we already see. It just means horses today are more fragile and can't run as frequently.

Fearless Leader 10-30-2007 03:45 PM

The ONLY ones to blame for the death of George Washington are his connections. A classic winning miler in europe, who was sterile, by the way, had absolutely nothing to gain by running in the classic. Especially not on dirt sloppy, or otherwise. Bad judgement by O'brien. Even worse was the jock continuing to beat the tar out of him when he was spinning his wheels going nowhere.

The connections got what they deserved (poor performances due to greed/arrogance). The only unfortunate part is that it came at the life expense of a super horse.

How dare they lash out at every one and everything associated with American racing and the Breeder's Cup. That outfit busts up more expensive horseflesh than anyone. Talk about living in denial.

Riot 10-30-2007 03:54 PM

Quote:

The ONLY ones to blame for the death of George Washington are his connections.
Why does someone have to be to "blame"? Accidents do indeed happen, catastrophic injuries do occur in a split second, out of nowhere, with no warning. The horse had a cannon bone condylar fracture as the original injury - that's consistent with an accident.

Fearless Leader 10-30-2007 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot
Why does someone have to be to "blame"? Accidents do indeed happen, catastrophic injuries do occur in a split second, out of nowhere, with no warning. The horse had a cannon bone condylar fracture as the original injury - that's consistent with an accident.


Ask his connections, they are blaming everything/everyone else.


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