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Cannon Shell 09-08-2008 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
Borrowed money to finance the Iraq War has cut our productive investment. Since taxes have been cut and other spending has increased since the beginning of the Iraq war, the war has been funded using borrowed money. A lot of Iraq-related costs have been borrowed from foreigners. The interest payments on this debt constitute a flow of funds from Americans to those foreigners who have bought our debt. You're gunna mainly see the very rich traveling abroad. That's because our money is worth so little in other countries.

Our money is worth a lot more than it was a few weeks ago

dalakhani 09-08-2008 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Do you ever try to understand the real world? American companies employ American workers who spend American dollars on American goods which makes for more tax revenues for the American govt to spend.

Cannon Shell is a proponent of the failed supply side experiment? A couple of problems though with your real world scenario. Let me fix it for you:

American Companies are employing more and more foreign workers leaving many American workers broke so they spend on credit for foreign goods that are more expensive because of the weakened dollars caused by our lack of tax revenues by our American Government that spends too much.

There, i would say that is more real world.

pgardn 09-08-2008 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
True but the term Christians is usually associated (at least in the media) with the "born again" or extreme right version.

I think you may be referring to Catholics requiring good works and accepting Jesus as your savior where some Protestants require only accepting Christ as your savior... raping and pillaging does not exclude entrance thru the Pearly gates as long as in the end, you accept Christ as your savior.

If you are Catholic, you got to spend some time suffering in Purgatory (not skiing). You just gotta watch everyone else ski just to make sure you suffer a bit before you can hit the pearly gates.

That covers it.
sorta.

but I digress...

dalakhani 09-08-2008 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Our money is worth a lot more than it was a few weeks ago

Thats not America's doing. Our monetary policy has done nothing but weaken the dollar.

Remember, the recent resurgence of the dollar has come primarily against European currencies and thats simply because it is becoming apparent that the European Central bank is going to have to do something soon.

Cannon Shell 09-08-2008 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
I think you may be referring to Catholics requiring good works and accepting Jesus as your savior where some Protestants require only accepting Christ as your savior... raping and pillaging does not exclude entrance thru the Pearly gates as long as in the end, you accept Christ as your savior.

If you are Catholic, you got to spend some time suffering in Purgatory (not skiing). You just gotta watch everyone else ski just to make sure you suffer a bit before you can hit the pearly gates.

That covers it.
sorta.

but I digress...

I went to Catholic school but slept through most of religion

SCUDSBROTHER 09-08-2008 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Our money is worth a lot more than it was a few weeks ago

71% of a Euro

57% of a Pound

I ain't planning a trip just yet, but it's a welcomed improvement.

pgardn 09-08-2008 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I went to Catholic school but slept through most of religion

I did too.
But I took copious notes.
The priests and nuns did not
like me. Nuns battered my hands with rulers.

Thought I was a pest that asked too many questions.
(aside: sorry mom, really)

Cant imagine anyone would think I was long-wnded brat.

Cannon Shell 09-08-2008 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
Cannon Shell is a proponent of the failed supply side experiment? A couple of problems though with your real world scenario. Let me fix it for you:

American Companies are employing more and more foreign workers leaving many American workers broke so they spend on credit for foreign goods that are more expensive because of the weakened dollars caused by our lack of tax revenues by our American Government that spends too much.

There, i would say that is more real world.

Yeah the poor American worker. Like the ones that are driving American automakers out of business because of unskilled labor making $100 an hour and retiring at 50? American companies are to blame for the plight of the poor american worker forced to use their credit cards to buy flat screen tv's. The ones who drive $50000 leased cars and were victims of the awful mortgage men who tricked them into believing they too could live in a $400k house on $38000 a year. What exactly is the % of American companies that have foreign operations?

Your solution is to elect Obama to tax the heck out of the rich to keep up with that out of control govt spending?

Real world is living within your means and stop blaming the someone else for all your problems when those means are exceeded.

Cannon Shell 09-08-2008 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
71% of a Euro

57% of a Pound

I ain't planning a trip just yet, but it's a welcomed improvement.

The British economy is about to get worse than ours. They have their own housing crisis too.

pgardn 09-08-2008 10:03 PM

Major short point:

The major redistribution of wealth by a government
is the precursor to failure. Dont work.

geeker2 09-08-2008 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I went to Catholic school but slept through most of religion


Sister Mary Cletus was my Mother Superior - she was the one with the big paddle.:)

SCUDSBROTHER 09-08-2008 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
Major short point:

The major redistribution of wealth by a government
is the precursor to failure. Dont work.

We've never had this major redistribution of wealth. Cuba did. These countries people call Socialist(Scandinavia and the other Euros with national healthcare) are doing fine. They aren't failing. That's because they did not have any major redistribution of wealth. Oprah making 2.5 billion( instead of 3 billion) is not a major redistribution of wealth. Your claim is probably true, but you're too quick to call something a major redistribution of wealth.

pgardn 09-08-2008 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
We've never had this major redistribution of wealth. Cuba did. These countries people call Socialist(Scandinavia and the other Euros with national healthcare) are doing fine. They aren't failing. That's because they did not have any major redistribution of wealth. Oprah making 2.5 billion( instead of 3 billion) is not a major redistribution of wealth. Your claim is probably true, but you're too quick to call something a major redistribution of wealth.

As much as I would like to have a stronger middle class.
You cant make it happen through government.
That is really the point.

Scandanavia is probably a very bad example being so homogenous...
as is Japan.
We have a very different dynamic here.
The mixing pot thing.

And health care is a horribly difficult problem.
If you got a plan, they need you in Washington now.
People are living too damn long. Major bucks spent
on older people instead of kids early on.
Major research on drugs to keep people alive longer,
but not necessarily help with the quality of life.
I plan to off myself before this happens.

dalakhani 09-08-2008 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Yeah the poor American worker. Like the ones that are driving American automakers out of business because of unskilled labor making $100 an hour and retiring at 50? American companies are to blame for the plight of the poor american worker forced to use their credit cards to buy flat screen tv's. The ones who drive $50000 leased cars and were victims of the awful mortgage men who tricked them into believing they too could live in a $400k house on $38000 a year. What exactly is the % of American companies that have foreign operations?

Your solution is to elect Obama to tax the heck out of the rich to keep up with that out of control govt spending?

Real world is living within your means and stop blaming the someone else for all your problems when those means are exceeded.

Why do you stick to this worn out elitist myth that supply side economics actually works? Check out the relationship between production and wages from 1980 until today and you tell me that it has been fair to the working class. Inflation adjusted wages have barely moved in the last 30 years while the price of everything has gone up significantly. During the same period of time, check out the rate in which CEO wages have risen. Bottom line? American production has increased but nothing has "trickled down".

So you bring up the cliche of the overextended middle class begging for handouts and living beyond their means while not addressing how it got to be this way and why the trend has been exasperated over the last thirty years. Bring out FACTS not cliches.

If you want to bring up Obama, the FACT is that tax wise, 95% of the population will benefit from his plan.

SCUDSBROTHER 09-08-2008 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
I plan to off myself before this happens.

A lot of people say that, but they don't follow through with it.

SCUDSBROTHER 09-08-2008 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
As much as I would like to have a stronger middle class.
You cant make it happen through government.
That is really the point.

Scandanavia is probably a very bad example being so homogenous...

I don't know why being homogenous would make the difference you seem to think it does. They've made a stronger middle class through government, and they are doing fine. Maybe what you should be saying is we need to get some of our social problems taken care of(be more responsible parents, and stop breeding criminals.) Probably no economic plan is gunna work when you have men letting women raise kids alone. BTW, if Conservatives had it their way, you wouldn't be Middle Class(as a teacher.) You wouldn't have a good retirement system either. What kind of retirement system do teachers have in these private schools (the schools Conservatives got such a hard on for.) Seems government has enabled you to be middle class. So, don't tell me you can't strengthen the middle class through government. You're a perfect example of it. You'd be struggling to make it with just private school pay.

Riot 09-09-2008 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Really it is not important except in dealing with social issues that dont affect most of the country. .. When was the last really groundbreaking thing that passed through the supreme court?

I would not look forward to 20 years of strict constitutionalism that would have a good chance of changing the past 35 years.

Danzig 09-09-2008 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani
Why do you stick to this worn out elitist myth that supply side economics actually works? Check out the relationship between production and wages from 1980 until today and you tell me that it has been fair to the working class. Inflation adjusted wages have barely moved in the last 30 years while the price of everything has gone up significantly. During the same period of time, check out the rate in which CEO wages have risen. Bottom line? American production has increased but nothing has "trickled down".

So you bring up the cliche of the overextended middle class begging for handouts and living beyond their means while not addressing how it got to be this way and why the trend has been exasperated over the last thirty years. Bring out FACTS not cliches.

If you want to bring up Obama, the FACT is that tax wise, 95% of the population will benefit from his plan.

i know i'm exasperated.

and obamas plan is to continue bushes tax cuts, essentially keep the whole tax scheme we've had in place, so i don't know what plan he's got you think is going to change things. of course once some of those tax cuts expire, he's probably going to jack them up to pay for all those new programs he's tossing out there like cheap candy to a baby. not sure how tax increases and new social programs that the middle class has to pay for won't exacerbate the whole less money from your pay check problem.

Danzig 09-09-2008 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot
I would not look forward to 20 years of strict constitutionalism that would have a good chance of changing the past 35 years.

i don't see that happening, regardless of who wins the election. they'd never make it through the process to get on the bench. nominating isn't the same as naming a judge.

Danzig 09-09-2008 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Yeah the poor American worker. Like the ones that are driving American automakers out of business because of unskilled labor making $100 an hour and retiring at 50? American companies are to blame for the plight of the poor american worker forced to use their credit cards to buy flat screen tv's. The ones who drive $50000 leased cars and were victims of the awful mortgage men who tricked them into believing they too could live in a $400k house on $38000 a year. What exactly is the % of American companies that have foreign operations?

Your solution is to elect Obama to tax the heck out of the rich to keep up with that out of control govt spending?

Real world is living within your means and stop blaming the someone else for all your problems when those means are exceeded.

remember now cannon, when you say anything 'republican', it's elitist mythical republican talking points, but if you state anything 'democratic', you're an intelligent open minded person who has seen the light.:rolleyes:


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