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Riot 08-09-2011 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 798670)
Does anyone else in this discussion employ people?

Yes. But not illegals and undocumented workers as your projects do.

jms62 08-09-2011 01:48 PM

Market just shat itself again/:zz:

Riot 08-09-2011 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeydb (Post 798673)
Or is it more likely, due to the uniformity of their action, that the conditions for making profit here in the United States was comprimised by unions and high labor rates, high taxes, excessive regulation, and the like?

Nope. They made plenty of profit. Our economy has boomed for years. They just wanted more.

Quote:

Greed would be the pursuit of excessive profit, right? But stable and substantial profits at some level must be made if a company is to stay in business.
How much in taxes did the Top Ten richest companies in the United States pay last year, Joey? There are many charts and news articles - just google and post it here.

joeydb 08-09-2011 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 798684)
Clueless....

How is that strategy of "Moving Work where it is profitable" working out for the economy now Joey?

If the company is still here, and wouldn't have been otherwise, I guess it worked for that company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 798684)
How is it working out for the housing recovery Joey?


The housing bubble was started from the mandated lending to otherwise unqualified buyers, directed by the government through the Community Reinvestment Act.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 798684)
High Taxes Joey? Most pay NONE...


They must forward the taxes - now as far as them paying none, you're correct in that most companies will not take a hit on profit to pay a levied tax, so that means the price of the product would have to go up. If that company thinks that the new price to pay the new tax would be noncompetitive with, say, a company outside the country not having to pay the tax, they're going to move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 798684)
Corporations have a duty to employ citizens of the country in which they operate.

No they don't. They have a duty to their shareholders and the customers buying their products.

Clip-Clop 08-09-2011 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798686)
Yes. But not illegals and undocumented workers as your projects do.

I have no control over the contractors that work on the same projects I work on. They hire the way they feel they need to. As for my company, we have hired 5 people all Americans and college graduates (crazy right?) in the last 16 months all while the sky is falling.
Perhaps cream rises to the top.
Glad your business is able to help out too!

Riot 08-09-2011 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiphan (Post 798671)
At least they didn't say they were going to print more $.....

If the Republicans won't allow any stimulus/job creation, then all the fed has left is allowing inflation to creep up.

That's is the joke of this fake "we're going broke! We can't pay our bills!" discussion - we are a sovereign nation. We could always print all the money we want to pay off every bill we have.

Yes, we have to rein in spending. But it's not the ridiculous crisis the right has made it out to be for the past month, just to screw Obama.

Clip-Clop 08-09-2011 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 798685)
The difference is they knew when the economy turned around the jobs would come back... We don't have that today.. Too many people for far too few jobs. London is our future and it will happen sooner rather than later.

I am with you on the too many people and the likely hood of London type behaviors finding their way around. What is it that makes you think that jobs will never return? You seem like a reasonable person and I am actually curious and happy to hear and debate your opinions.
Also what would be your plan for creation of jobs?
It has to fall on the private sector one way or another, no?

Riot 08-09-2011 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 798683)
Grandparents for me actually. FDR was dealing with a completely different economic scenario and breed of American than we have today. The sense of entitlement that has imprinted itself on the psyche of the modern resident of this country is absolutely embarrassing.

Yes, it extends to the very richest of our nation wanting to live in this great country, while trying to get very single penny they can out of the economy, and screw anyone else. Especially the poor, the have nots, the hungery.

The rich are having a very bad time ... they have hoarded most of the money in the economy, 1.2 Trillion dollars. That means there is no money left for the other 90% to purchase their goods and services.

Of course, if your job is to make money by gambling (Wall Street) which way the country goes doesn't matter, as you can make as much money in the destruction of an empire as you can during the creation.

Riot 08-09-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 798687)
Market just shat itself again/:zz:

Don't forget they all shorted, and were profit-taking last few days, too.

Antitrust32 08-09-2011 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798605)
So you're sticking with, "If we just kicked them off unemployment, they'd find jobs".

If only that unemployed, $60,000 a year IT technologist would get a job trimming your hedges! If only they would take the jobs of the undocumented farm workers and construction workers.

How unbelievably naive.

I'm sorry but if that 60k per year IT worker cant find a job working IT, but can find a job trimming hedges. That is what he/she should do, while he/she continues to look for a job in IT.

whats the alternative? dont work and collect tax payer funded unemployment?

How unbelievably ignorant.

Antitrust32 08-09-2011 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 798618)
If your chosen profession is no longer available you adapt. I am not saying that everyone should or can work in construction or a field. I am saying that people need to get off their high horses about the job that is good enough for them and suck it up. I can guarantee if I needed the work and were willing to sacrifice enough to work at McDonald's, I am coming away with that job and I am going to impress and show up and collect my pay after working hard for the week. It comes down to motivation and a willingness to do something "beneath" you in order to survive. Not waiting around for someone else to take care of you. More people needed to grow up poor, this way they would be better equipped to handle it when it happened to them.

:tro:

personal responsibility. nobody wants that.

Clip-Clop 08-09-2011 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798701)
Yes, it extends to the very richest of our nation wanting to live in this great country, while trying to get very single penny they can out of the economy, and screw anyone else. Especially the poor, the have nots, the hungery.

The rich are having a very bad time ... they have hoarded most of the money in the economy, 1.2 Trillion dollars. That means there is no money left for the other 90% to purchase their goods and services.

Of course, if your job is to make money by gambling (Wall Street) which way the country goes doesn't matter, as you can make as much money in the destruction of an empire as you can during the creation.

I made no distinction about who has this sense.
I am glad to know you are doing as much to help the poor and indigent in this country. I am certain you are volunteering your time and money to help.
Or does that responsibility fall on the "wealthy" too?

Riot 08-09-2011 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 798704)
I'm sorry but if that 60k per year IT worker cant find a job working IT, but can find a job trimming hedges. That is what he/she should do, while he/she continues to look for a job in IT.

whats the alternative? dont work and collect tax payer funded unemployment?

How unbelievably ignorant.

Of course they should take any job they could get (and afford to live upon - even if it takes two jobs) - but those jobs are not available. They are not existent. There are not millions of jobs sitting there empty, unfilled because the lazy unemployed class won't take them.

How unbelievably ignorant.

Riot 08-09-2011 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 798706)
I made no distinction about who has this sense.
I am glad to know you are doing as much to help the poor and indigent in this country. I am certain you are volunteering your time and money to help.
Or does that responsibility fall on the "wealthy" too?

Do you work in commercial construction or houses/apartments? I'd guess commercial. If not, I'd like to know where private housing is thriving in multiple states right now.

See, here's the agreement in our country, according to our founding fathers, and our Constitution and Bill of Rights: we all contribute to our common society, through taxes, to our common national welfare. And even if we don't like something ... wars, or welfare ... the deal is that you have a say through the ballot box, but when you are on the losing side, you still have to do it. So everyone in this country has a responsibility to contribute. The first contribution is being an informed voter.

wiphan 08-09-2011 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798697)
If the Republicans won't allow any stimulus/job creation, then all the fed has left is allowing inflation to creep up.

That's is the joke of this fake "we're going broke! We can't pay our bills!" discussion - we are a sovereign nation. We could always print all the money we want to pay off every bill we have.

Yes, we have to rein in spending. But it's not the ridiculous crisis the right has made it out to be for the past month, just to screw Obama.

your inability to understand reality is quite funny. You have no clue on inflation, stimulus, fed policy,etc. Sorry I have to get back to work. 10 yr T note just hit all time low and it is time to make some $.

Clip-Clop 08-09-2011 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798709)
Do you work in commercial construction or houses/apartments?

Primarily single family homes but we do work in the occasional multi-dwelling and rarer still in commercial.

Riot 08-09-2011 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiphan (Post 798711)
your inability to understand reality is quite funny. You have no clue on inflation, stimulus, fed policy,etc. Sorry I have to get back to work. 10 yr T note just hit all time low and it is time to make some $.

Really? Do you have anything constructive to offer regarding the Feds options, or just want to be snarky? You want to talk about the Feds announcement (or lack of it) that there will be no QE3, that they are not doing anything? Or just wanna be snarky?

Riot 08-09-2011 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 798713)
Primarily single family homes but we do work in the occasional multi-dwelling and rarer still in commercial.

Seriously - where are single family homes being built right now? Where is housing growth?

Clip-Clop 08-09-2011 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798709)
Do you work in commercial construction or houses/apartments? I'd guess commercial. If not, I'd like to know where private housing is thriving in multiple states right now.

See, here's the agreement in our country, according to our founding fathers, and our Constitution and Bill of Rights: we all contribute to our common society, through taxes, to our common national welfare. And even if we don't like something ... wars, or welfare ... the deal is that you have a say through the ballot box, but when you are on the losing side, you still have to do it. So everyone in this country has a responsibility to contribute. The first contribution is being an informed voter.

Private home building is thriving in CO, LA, GA, IN, NH, FL (only larger homes), AZ, CA (not southern). Those are where the majority of my projects are.
Informed voter has become an oxymoron.

Riot 08-09-2011 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 798718)
Private home building is thriving in CO, LA, GA, IN, NH, FL (only larger homes), AZ, CA (not southern). Those are where the majority of my projects are.
Informed voter has become an oxymoron.

Indiana surprises me. Where? Central? In association with the wind farms?

AZ isn't going to have any water. I can't believe they are still building there.

Clip-Clop 08-09-2011 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798720)
Indiana surprises me. Where? Central? In association with the wind farms?

AZ isn't going to have any water. I can't believe they are still building there.

OK too, for some reason people live there.

Coach Pants 08-09-2011 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 798705)
:tro:

personal responsibility. nobody wants that.

The bank executives sure the f.uck don't and have no repercussions for their actions.

Are you saying these people should have different rules? Wake up.

Antitrust32 08-09-2011 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 798763)
The bank executives sure the f.uck don't and have no repercussions for their actions.

Are you saying these people should have different rules? Wake up.

the bank execs who screwed us should be put in a cell with Bubba or have their asses kicked in a public setting.

Coach Pants 08-09-2011 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 798766)
the bank execs who screwed us should be put in a cell with Bubba or have their asses kicked in a public setting.

Well they aren't and if they can get away with criminal behavior then why can't the poor?

The leaders of society are mostly scumbag criminals. Lead by example and this is the result.

Riot 08-09-2011 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 798726)
OK too, for some reason people live there.

Where in Indiana?

clyde 08-09-2011 03:51 PM

Do youl read your boo bees bedtime stories??

Riot 08-09-2011 04:16 PM

This is a hilarious accounting - in cartoon form - of the reality of how the Republicans decided to use the "debt ceiling blockage" strategy. Be sure to go down to the bottom of the introduction and click "start" (it is not the cartoons on the right)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...deal-timeline/

wiphan 08-09-2011 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798714)
Really? Do you have anything constructive to offer regarding the Feds options, or just want to be snarky? You want to talk about the Feds announcement (or lack of it) that there will be no QE3, that they are not doing anything? Or just wanna be snarky?

When you make a comment stating "we will never go broke because we can just print more money" it shows that you have no knowledge or understanding of fiscal policy and there is no sense in discussing it with you. You simply do not understand. My 3 yr old has that kind of logic. The Fed said a lot today, more than it usually does. The last thing we need is QEIII.

Riot 08-09-2011 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiphan (Post 798790)
When you make a comment stating "we will never go broke because we can just print more money" it shows that you have no knowledge or understanding of fiscal policy and there is no sense in discussing it with you.

Oh for christ sakes, you fool, I didn't say we would ever do that, or that it would remotely ever be a reasonable or logical solution, it would be terrible. I suspected you to have a small bit of common sense in a discussion!

But it is indeed why we would never go "bankrupt".

You are so filled with your prejudices and assumptions. You trot them out at the drop of a hat, be they valid or not. Are you already blaming "union thugs" for any Democratic victories in Wisconsin today? Even though the Koch Brothers have spent more outside money on the GOP side?

Antitrust32 08-09-2011 04:50 PM

the best news the past few weeks is no QEIII

Antitrust32 08-09-2011 04:50 PM

Riot were you bullied in school?

Riot 08-09-2011 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 798796)
Riot were you bullied in school?

Like you? No. Not at all.

I'm tired of Wiphans massive and repetitive jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions. If you say A, Wiphan snarks back attacking you for C, D and E. Predictable and boring. And bullshit.

Antitrust32 08-09-2011 04:55 PM

he's a smart guy who understands what is going on in the state he resides.

Riot 08-09-2011 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 798798)
he's a smart guy who understands what is going on in the state he resides.

Not smart enough to realize the basic financial parameter givens of a normal discussion.

Antitrust32 08-09-2011 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 798799)
Not smart enough to realize the basic financial parameter givens of a normal discussion.

only in your opinion.

Riot 08-09-2011 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 798801)
only in your opinion.

Yes, we each get one of those! ;)

And to slightly change the subject, this is completely hilarious:

"Tea Party! American Thanks You!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Kuo8lb6Bg

Riot 08-09-2011 05:22 PM

S & P against GOP "Balanced Budget Amendment"
 
Washington Post:

House and Senate Republicans have rallied around the notion of a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution as a solution to the country’s dire fiscal straits. But over the weekend, the head of Standard & Poor’s sovereign ratings division dismissed the idea, arguing that it would be more harmful than helpful to the country’s creditworthiness.

“In general, we think that fiscal rules like these just diminish the flexibility of the government to respond” to crises, S&P managing director John Chambers told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on Saturday when asked whether it’s important that Congress send a balanced budget amendment to the states in order to restore the country’s AAA credit rating.

Chambers made the remarks one day after S&P downgraded the U.S. credit rating from AAA to AA+ for the first time in the country’s history.

Since the start of the 112th Congress, Republicans in both chambers have voiced increasing support for a balanced budget amendment, and a pledge to “cut, cap and balance” the federal budget — first raised during the debate over raising the country’s debt ceiling — has become a rallying point among conservatives in the broader battle over the federal budget.

Danzig 08-09-2011 05:58 PM

if they'd put all their efforts into finding ways to increase hiring, we'd be far better off.

i called the honorable sen. pryors office today, which my husband said was probably a waste of time.
i told the lady who answered the phone that i was calling because of a line i'd read in the paper earlier today. that leaders in england were cutting their vacations short, and returning to handle the crisis with the looting, etc. i asked her why our leaders weren't doing the same.

i think i'll email bozeman and rep. ross, and ask them the same thing.

Danzig 08-09-2011 06:11 PM

and what ever happened with this?

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/03/news...down/index.htm


or was that all just a waste of time for the people involved? what's the point in having people work on something, if you're not going to use the results?

Danzig 08-11-2011 07:28 AM

the reps have named the six members of the super committee....

which will now become a super waste of time, effort, with no reason to meet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44088093...per-committee/


maybe, just maybe....lol...anyway, maybe they can at least do what is suggested in the article, tax reform and close loopholes.

you've got a party that refuses to touch the biggest part of future budget problems, and a party that refuses to look at raising taxes even on billionaires. now, without a bit of a move on both those issues, our problems will continue to spiral out of control.


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