Are you saying that horsemen can't tell when a horse isn't travelling well?

The under felt like a bigger longshot than that.

She made up for it by saying she hopes Frankel the horse comes over next year to run in the stakes race (San Gorgonio) that they renamed for Bobby Frankel. He'll need a sex change to be eligible but they are doing amazing things with medicine nowadays, so we'll see.

How do you explain her last race on dirt, the race at Oaklawn? Do you claim that track was much faster than Churchill? They ran the first 3 furlongs in :36, give or take 1/5th of a second. Zenyatta was 8 lenghts back. But when they run :35 at Churchill (mainly on a straightaway), she is 20 lengths back.

Seriously?

No, I'm saying an idiot on the internet can't tell if a horse is happy or not by a still picture.

In the case of the BC Classic, we have more than a still picture.

Did you read the post you responded to at all? I'm talking about a still picture and someone saying she looked unhappy in the picture. That's it.

It's been over a week now. Time to get over it.

So why was the stalker Etched, who had never been more than 2 lengths off the pace in any previous start, 8 lengths from the lead in the early stages despite this being his first start beyond 9f?

Zenyatta was about 12-15 lengths behind him early.

Seems more likely that the "out of the ordinary" was going on up front, not at the rear.

Etched was only 4 lengths back after a quarter mile. He was about 5 lengths back after 3 furlongs. It looked like he was in a good spot. I think Alan Garcia saw that you had 4 horses going at a pretty good clip up front, so he figured he would stay in the clear in 5th.

Just to be clear about my position with regards to Zenyatta, I don't think she was that much further back after a half-mile than she should have been or than I would have expected. She was maybe 2-3 lengths further back than I would have expected, but that's about it. That wasn't what really hurt her. What really hurt her was being 20 lengths back after 3 furlongs. That hurt her because Mike Smith had to use her to get her back in the race. That really hurt her because she ended up having to sprint the final 7 furlongs of the race. To say that's hard to do is an understatement.

Would Zenyatta have beaten Icon Project on the dirt in some of those races last year?

Not in the Personal Ensign in my opinion. She would have never run against her in the New York Stakes obviously because it was scheduled for turf and was run over a quagmire but it would have taken a huge effort to beat her that day at Saratoga.

It seemed to me that two races were taking place at once. Maybe in the initial stages Zenyatta got left for dead (she broke a bit flat anyways), but once the other jocks realized the ridiculous duel going on up front, they all seemed to backed off. If they did purposefully back off (and you said yourself that Etched settled further back after 3 furlongs), then the second flight simply came back to Zenyatta, as opposed to her sprinting the final 7f in some herculean effort.

Essentially, the first 4 were on their own and ultimately immaterial, as they were swallowed up immediately without resistance. Etched was the first to hit the front and make a serious move, and Zenyatta was never more than 14 lengths behind him early and easily within striking distance of him throughout the backstretch.

Zenyatta did break flat-footed but that's not unusual for her. She pretty much always breaks like that.

With regard to whether she was sprinting home or the others were coming back to her, it was clearly a combination of both. The front runners totally collapsed. There's no doubt about that. But Zenyatta did sprint home. If you do the math, she ran her final 7 furlongs in about 1:23 1/5. That is spectacular.

I assume you guys know that Mike Smith admitted that he contemplated pulling Zenyatta up early in the race. I think he knows the horse pretty well. If she felt like her normal self and was travelling fine, do you think he would have been thinking about pulling her up?

Just like Joel Rosario considered pulling up Make Music For Me after he was 20th and 28 lengths behind after just a quarter mile in the Kentucky Derby...before he closed to finish 4th and will now go down in history as the single worst horse to ever make a Superfecta ticket in the KY Derby.




Ice Box was 24 back - I'm shocked Lezcano didn't come out and say he almost pulled him up. If only a Horse of the Year vote was on the line for Ice Box and Make Music For Me might we be treated to such stupidity.

You really are trying to be a wet brained tard. It would be a lot more amusing if you were some deranged clueless pretty poney woman sprinkling each one of your posts with about 7 emotocons.

I assume you know that I contemplated playing a $100 straight Pick 6 of Chamberlain Bridge - Uncle Mo - Goldikova - Dakota Phone - Dangerous Midge - Blame ... I think this proves that I should win an eclipse award for Handicapper of the Year.

Instead, however, you decided to put Quality Road on top (with Haynesfield as your 2nd choice). That was a very nice selection.:rolleyes: There's MUCH to learn from you. ha ha ha

Where do you find the nuts? How does anyone not fall down laughing whenever you post anything, especially when you criticize others, after that FIASCO?

Blame was my 2nd choice... but you know that already you ankle biting stalker. Oh boy, my top pick in a race put in a non-effort at 7/1 odds.

Keep pretending like every bet you've ever made is a winning one - and that you actually make money betting.

How does it feel to be the message board equivalent of Rich Kotite?

Math obviously isn't your strong suit.

Is this the same Mike Smith who is generally regarded as being pretty simple minded?

And thinks Z is the greatest horse that ever was, or ever will be?

I have NO IDEA how old you are Fartman, but it is 1/5 that Drugs knows way more than you. The only thing i would say against his Classic selection was putting Haynesfield 2nd...just his breeding alone would make him a auto toss for me.

I think Rupert usually has one of the better opinions on here. It never ceases to amaze me what Zenyattardism does to people!

Are you freakin nuts? Would you really leave off Zenyatta in the BCC? I bet you even if she runs second in that race, they will pay out the P6 to both the winner and her.

HAHAH!!

Dumb and Dumber!

I think he choked.

I put Haynesfield 3rd. QR-Blame-Haynesfield was my 1-2-3 in the paper.

Breeding didn't worry me about Haynesfield - he's already proven he could get 10fs.

Dale Romans came out and told the press several days before the BC Classic that he wanted to be "laying about 4th" with First Dude and "about 3 or 4 lengths off of the lead"

When Romans said he was going to instruct his jockey to take First Dude off of the pace ... I expected a slow pace. Anyone who knows anything - knows that Ramon Dominguez and John Velazquez are two guys who are notorious for avoiding duels.

I expected a similar scenerio to the Whitney to unfold. Quality Road to walk on the lead - and Haynesfield to sit about a length back while rating. Instead, not true to Dale Romans word .. First Dude ran off to the lead and baked the speed horses - and setup the closers.

Smith rode a very good race. He's lucky Jose Lezcano wasn't still on Fly Down and Julian Leperoux was... Julian was oblivious to Zenyatta while riding his own horse - and he let her out of a trap. Smith would have been stopped cold had Julian not angled Fly Down out so soon.

Icon Project would have beat her by DAYLIGHT IN THE PERSONAL ENSIGN. Zenyatta would just be making her move when the Icon opens up by 7. It would have been ugly for big Z that day.

Ya but Icon Project was an all-time great.

Joel Rosario never said he thought about pulling Make Music For Me up. Jockeys don't pull up come-from-behinders for being too far back. They pull them up when they don't feel right.

Your opinion is the one that is amusing. My opinion is shared by every trainer on the west coast that I've talked to. It's also shared by Mike Smith. But I guess you know Zenyatta better than Mike Smith since you thought she wouldn't finish within 10 lengths in the Classic.

Let me see. They went the first 3 furlongs in :35. Zenyatta was 20 lengths back. She went the first 3 fulongs in about :39. She finished in 2:02 1/5. You do the math.

Most jockeys and exercise riders may not be geniuses, but they can certainly tell when a horse they ride regularly doesn't feel right.

If they would have gone :48 and 1:12, the outcome would have been no different. Maybe Quality Road loses by 20 lengths instead of 25. Maybe First Dude loses by 8 lengths instead of 11 lengths.

Wow - you are truly weapons grade stupid. You actually think there are 5 lengths in a second? Tears, Jerry, Tears.

Mathematically speaking, a length should equal 1/5th of a second only when a horse travels a furlong in 15 seconds. Do you have a harness racing background or something?

It obviously depends on the rate of speed....but as a rule of thumb, one full second equals about six lengths.

I told you already - based on the information in the result chart - Zenyatta ran her final mile in 1:36.27 - and final six furlongs in 1:12.59 - those times come from Formulator's chart.

You - keep saying she ran her final seven furlongs in 1:23 1/5.

Which means you keep insisting that she ran the 4th furlong of the race in 10.61 seconds... after running her 3rd furlong of the race in 13.07 seconds.

Every trainer on the West Coast thought Zenyatta didn't feel right to them early on ... and yet she overcame this ailment that plagued her so terribly through the first three furlongs of the race?

Yeah, ok.

Are you implying 7/1 shot Quality Road put in a non-effort - gee, no kidding.

By the way - I watched Cowboys Get Even get dusted by double digits at Charles Town last week to a horse that was in for a $12,500 claiming tag...he's yet to win and has burned a lot of money since that brilliant thread you started about him ....

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33856

Here's a chart of his most recent race in case you've finally given up and stopped following him.

http://www1.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorse...01112&raceNo=8

uncle.....

Winter in Erie is looooooooonnng.

Opposite of uncle.

This is beyond mind-blowing in its awesomeness.

Thanks. There's some good entertainment in that thread.

Yikes

If you ever watch horses train in the morning or if you ever read any of the clockers' reports (Mike Welsch's for example), then you know that there are plenty of horses that are stiff when they first come on the track and they may take a half-mile to warm up. Some of them look very choppy in the beginning of their gallops but once they warm up they look much better.

Zenyatta looked very stiff early in the race. That's not debatable. Anyone that knows what they are looking at will tell you this. The most likely reason she was so stiff in the early going of the race was because they did not warm her up in the post parade. It was 40 degrees out. That was a big mistake.

I know why they never warm her up. They never warm her up in the post parade because they want to keep her calm. They can get away with that when it's 70 degrees out, but not when it's 40 degrees. I can't really fault Mike Smith though because the guy obviously did not want to change a routine that has worked 19 out of 19 times.

She didn't look stiff to me. Life at Ten looked stiff.