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-   -   11/5 (CD): Breeders' Cup Friday (Post Draw Fields; ML's) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39065)

VOL JACK 11-02-2010 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 715235)
Rinterval should and will be a longshot in the F/M Sprint. The question to me boiled down to whether Switch is a good bet at what will be her closing odds (I'm guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-1).

I would take 12-1 all day on her.

mbahadur 11-02-2010 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 715056)
FILLY & MARE SPRINT (5:30p)

1. My Jen (E. Kenneally/J. Velazquez) 15-1
2. Sara Louise (S. bin Suroor/F. Dettori) 15-1
3. Secret Gypsy (R. Werner/R. Albarado) 12-1
4. Informed Decision (J. Sheppard/J. Leparoux) 7-2
5. Evening Jewel (J. Cassidy/V. Espinoza)
6. Moontune Missy (E. Harty/A. Garcia) 30-1
7. Gabby's Golden Gal (B. Baffert/M. Garcia) 15-1
8. Sweet August Moon (B. Koriner/M. Smith) 30-1
9. Switch (J. Sadler/J. Rosario) 20-1
10. Rinterval (E. Reed/R. Bejarano) 20-1
11. Jessica Is Back (M. Wolfson/J. Castellano) 12-1
12. Dubai Majesty (W. Calhoun/J. Theriot) 6-1
13. Rightly So (A. Dutrow/C. Velasquez) 3-1*
14. Champagne D'oro (E. Guillot/M. Mena) 6-1
AE-15 Tidal Pool (W. Lukas) 50-1
AE-16. First Passage (M. Wolfson) 50-1

Some nice prices in here.

If you can live with the long layoff and believe that the Kentucky Oaks at Churchill Downs was too far for her, Gabby's Golden Gal's last was a Grade 1 win (with Garcia on board and she beat Proviso) and she won a Grade 1 at a mile on the dirt in New York. You also have Baffert moving from synthetic to dirt and she should like the distance. Also lightly raced this year (similar to Midnight Lute). And I think she can rate behind the speed. With Baffert though, I am wondering if she will stay at 15-1.

I also would love Evening Jewel at double digit odds in here.

hockey2315 11-02-2010 08:29 PM

Gabby's Golden Gal is no Midnight Lute. It's a shame that Champagne d'Oro got that bad post. . . she wasn't my top choice, but I was starting to warm to her a bit. Jessica Is Back is the value - her 7f performance in the Fleur de Lis might win this.

RockHardTen1985 11-02-2010 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike (Post 715282)
I'm seeing Evening Jewel at 15-1 in Filly and Mare Sprint

She never runs a bad race, has speed and is a turf to dirt turnback. I LOVE HER.

Indian Charlie 11-02-2010 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 715355)
She never runs a bad race, has speed and is a turf to dirt turnback. I LOVE HER.

The ol' infamous turf to dirt and cutback in distance combo move!!

That bangup second to Caracortado the last time she sprinted, ten months ago, that's bonus!!

ateamstupid 11-02-2010 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 715396)
The ol' infamous turf to dirt and cutback in distance combo move!!

That bangup second to Caracortado the last time she sprinted, ten months ago, that's bonus!!

If she were adding blinkers, switching trainers, changing sexes and running backwards, he'd love her even more.

Indian Charlie 11-02-2010 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 715408)
If she were adding blinkers, switching trainers, changing sexes and running backwards, he'd love her even more.

Actually, if she switched trainers, she'd be running in the distaff.

chucklestheclown 11-03-2010 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 715193)
I doubt a whole lot of them are planning their Friday around betting Switch and Rinterval.

I doubt they are old enough to bet.

chucklestheclown 11-03-2010 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK (Post 715220)
How do you explain Rinterval taking no money in her last start at Kee?

See ^^^

Kasept 11-03-2010 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 715410)
Actually, if she switched trainers, she'd be running in the distaff.

I/C,

That's not true and you aren't judging her fairly because of a pronounced disdain for Cassidy. On dirt, Cassidy feels, probably rightly, that 9f strains the outer limit of her ability. It's unreasonable to expect her to gut out a mile and an eighth on or near the lead with Acting Happy, Malibu Prayer, Life at Ten and Havre de Grace all involved with her, and still have something left to hold off Blind Luck. She couldn't do that with much lesser in the Oaks, and it's likely she wouldn't be able to do it Friday.

The F&M Turf is over her head right now too.. So what did that leave for her? I can tell you that Mott was not far away from putting Unrivaled Belle in the F&M Sprint as well, so you can understand how these decisions are made. Also, how can you negatively judge her potential for success on a turn back to 7f, (in start #14 on a dirt track she seemed to relish earlier in the year), on a result from her 4th career start 11 months ago at Hollywood when she faced colts as a 2yo. This race is probably the spot that could produce her best result at this point recognizing that there is a big difference between a 6f and 7f sprint. Does she have 6f sprinter speed? No. Does she have the kind of speed that can be effectively used at seven eighths? Yes. Next year as a 4yo, she could be better suited to try the F&M Turf or the Distaff, but right now, I think the F&M Sprint makes sense.

All of this said, I'm likely picking Champagne d'Oro in the race as she is the most likely winner and a square price anywhere close to the ML. But I'm including Evening Jewel.

herkhorse 11-03-2010 05:25 AM

Steve, what do you think of Sara Louise?

ateamstupid 11-03-2010 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 715446)
All of this said, I'm likely picking Champagne d'Oro in the race as she is the most likely winner and a square price anywhere close to the ML. But I'm including Evening Jewel.

Really? From the 14-hole with no competitive race other than the Test, which was a decidedly weak renewal? You nailed her at 39-1 so I'm pretty surprised you'd be satisfied with 5-1 in this spot.

Kasept 11-03-2010 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herkhorse (Post 715447)
Steve, what do you think of Sara Louise?

Honestly Tom.. at this time I have no feel for her betability or liklihood for success. (Gus loves her in here I know.) I generally stay away from horses in situations like hers, but the 'real' BC Sprint has been one race where abbreviated campaigns or 'ouchy' types can be held together or pointed for one almighty effort. Desert Stormer and Lit de Justice won and Kela was 2nd having last started in August of their respective years for instance, and Fenstermaker hadn't started Precisionist since June in '85!

Second off the layoff here from what I think was a good group in the Gallant Bloom, can't be viewed as anything but positive. And also on the plus side is that she has the 2 races that are easily good enough to win this if she's right, and the 2 very favorable results on this strip as a 2yo with Romans. You're getting 15-1, and she is sure to have a pace to run into... Can't blame anyone for latching on to her.

Kasept 11-03-2010 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 715452)
Really? From the 14-hole with no competitive race other than the Test, which was a decidedly weak renewal? You nailed her at 39-1 so I'm pretty surprised you'd be satisfied with 5-1 in this spot.

I think she's the horse to key around. Nothing wrong with the 14 going 7f, as she and Rightly So will clear. She has that elongated sprint specialist edge I like (Maryfield-style), and in this instance, I think Guillot has done a very good job preparing her. She didn't care for the going at KEE and still was only beat 2L, and has looked terrific getting ready for this.

ateamstupid 11-03-2010 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 715455)
I think she's the horse to key around. Nothing wrong with the 14 going 7f, as she and Rightly So will clear. She has that elongated sprint specialist edge I like (Maryfield-style), and in this instance, I think Guillot has done a very good job preparing her. She didn't care for the going at KEE and still was only beat 2L, and has looked terrific getting ready for this.

I think that the only way she and Rightly So clear is if they go very fast early. Secret Gypsy and Gabby's Golden Gal are gunning too IMO. If so, C'D is either four-wide or on a fast pace or both. More than anything though, I think this is the most wide open race on the card, which is why it's hard for me to take either of the two outside horses at 5-1 and under.

knickslions2 11-03-2010 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 715446)
I/C,

That's not true and you aren't judging her fairly because of a pronounced disdain for Cassidy. On dirt, Cassidy feels, probably rightly, that 9f strains the outer limit of her ability. It's unreasonable to expect her to gut out a mile and an eighth on or near the lead with Acting Happy, Malibu Prayer, Life at Ten and Havre de Grace all involved with her, and still have something left to hold off Blind Luck. She couldn't do that with much lesser in the Oaks, and it's likely she wouldn't be able to do it Friday.

The F&M Turf is over her head right now too.. So what did that leave for her? I can tell you that Mott was not far away from putting Unrivaled Belle in the F&M Sprint as well, so you can understand how these decisions are made. Also, how can you negatively judge her potential for success on a turn back to 7f, (in start #14 on a dirt track she seemed to relish earlier in the year), on a result from her 4th career start 11 months ago at Hollywood when she faced colts as a 2yo. This race is probably the spot that could produce her best result at this point recognizing that there is a big difference between a 6f and 7f sprint. Does she have 6f sprinter speed? No. Does she have the kind of speed that can be effectively used at seven eighths? Yes. Next year as a 4yo, she could be better suited to try the F&M Turf or the Distaff, but right now, I think the F&M Sprint makes sense.

All of this said, I'm likely picking Champagne d'Oro in the race as she is the most likely winner and a square price anywhere close to the ML. But I'm including Evening Jewel.

Glad to hear you also like Champagne d'Oro. I really like that horse here.

Indian Charlie 11-03-2010 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 715446)
I/C,

That's not true and you aren't judging her fairly because of a pronounced disdain for Cassidy. On dirt, Cassidy feels, probably rightly, that 9f strains the outer limit of her ability. It's unreasonable to expect her to gut out a mile and an eighth on or near the lead with Acting Happy, Malibu Prayer, Life at Ten and Havre de Grace all involved with her, and still have something left to hold off Blind Luck. She couldn't do that with much lesser in the Oaks, and it's likely she wouldn't be able to do it Friday.

The F&M Turf is over her head right now too.. So what did that leave for her? I can tell you that Mott was not far away from putting Unrivaled Belle in the F&M Sprint as well, so you can understand how these decisions are made. Also, how can you negatively judge her potential for success on a turn back to 7f, (in start #14 on a dirt track she seemed to relish earlier in the year), on a result from her 4th career start 11 months ago at Hollywood when she faced colts as a 2yo. This race is probably the spot that could produce her best result at this point recognizing that there is a big difference between a 6f and 7f sprint. Does she have 6f sprinter speed? No. Does she have the kind of speed that can be effectively used at seven eighths? Yes. Next year as a 4yo, she could be better suited to try the F&M Turf or the Distaff, but right now, I think the F&M Sprint makes sense.

All of this said, I'm likely picking Champagne d'Oro in the race as she is the most likely winner and a square price anywhere close to the ML. But I'm including Evening Jewel.

There are several reasons I think the the Distaff is the spot to go. First off, I think Champagne d'Oro is a bigger hurdle to overcome than anything in the Distaff. Even beyond Champagne, the sprint is a better and tougher field.

Next, she really hasn't been trained up to a sprint to end her season, has she? She's been running very effectively at longer distances. Who in their right mind uses the QEII as a prep for a grade one sprint??!

As for her ability to sprint vs. going 9 on dirt, well, if you can use the reasoning that she might have improved since her December sprint, I don't think it's a stretch to say she might have improved since the Oaks in what was essentially early May.

Her race in the Oaks, she sat off the lead and I see no reason why that wouldn't happen again. Also, I don't think Blind Luck is going to win the Distaff anyways. I think she's a toss.

That all being said, if she were my horse, I'd probably have run her in the Cal Cup and ran QT in the BC mile. I don't think there are any spots that she fits well in the BC.

However, with that, I believe it's entirely possible she'd have cashed a nice check in the Distaff. The Sprint though, I think the race would need to fall apart for her to make any noise at all.

NTamm1215 11-03-2010 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 715515)
There are several reasons I think the the Distaff is the spot to go. First off, I think Champagne d'Oro is a bigger hurdle to overcome than anything in the Distaff. Even beyond Champagne, the sprint is a better and tougher field.

Next, she really hasn't been trained up to a sprint to end her season, has she? She's been running very effectively at longer distances. Who in their right mind uses the QEII as a prep for a grade one sprint??!

As for her ability to sprint vs. going 9 on dirt, well, if you can use the reasoning that she might have improved since her December sprint, I don't think it's a stretch to say she might have improved since the Oaks in what was essentially early May.

Her race in the Oaks, she sat off the lead and I see no reason why that wouldn't happen again. Also, I don't think Blind Luck is going to win the Distaff anyways. I think she's a toss.

That all being said, if she were my horse, I'd probably have run her in the Cal Cup and ran QT in the BC mile. I don't think there are any spots that she fits well in the BC.

However, with that, I believe it's entirely possible she'd have cashed a nice check in the Distaff. The Sprint though, I think the race would need to fall apart for her to make any noise at all.

I understand you don't like Blind Luck (I'm still stunned you called her a newer version of Octave) but I can't see how Champagne d'Oro is a bigger hurdle than anything in the Distaff. I find that very far fetched.

Cassidy has terrific numbers with cutbacks (16%, $2.90 over last five years) and her defeat in the Oaks made it clear, at least to me, that she's going to need basically everything to go right to win at 9fs because it did for her and she was still beaten.

CSC 11-03-2010 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat (Post 715221)
This is a really nice field but ummm 6/5 on Midday?

With Plumania and Red Desire in the same field?

Ummm okaaaay.

There's one Euro that no one has mentioned that I am really looking fwd to betting. On another note, I wonder if Stoute will truly scratch Workforce if the course remains too hard this week.

ateamstupid 11-03-2010 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC (Post 715568)
There's one Euro that no one has mentioned that I am really looking fwd to betting. On another note, I wonder if Stoute will truly scratch Workforce if the course remains too hard this week.

Oh you big tease. Don't leave the world waiting.

Indian Charlie 11-03-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 715536)
I understand you don't like Blind Luck (I'm still stunned you called her a newer version of Octave) but I can't see how Champagne d'Oro is a bigger hurdle than anything in the Distaff. I find that very far fetched.

Cassidy has terrific numbers with cutbacks (16%, $2.90 over last five years) and her defeat in the Oaks made it clear, at least to me, that she's going to need basically everything to go right to win at 9fs because it did for her and she was still beaten.

I do like Blind Luck. I projected her to be the best 3yo filly going into this year from last. I just don't think this crop of 3yo fillies is very good.

Besides Champagne, the sprint field is a lot tougher, and for lack of a better word, saltier.

She never has shown a propensity for sprinting, and cutting her back after a year of running long, seems, well, a bit far fetched to me.

Indian Charlie 11-03-2010 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC (Post 715568)
There's one Euro that no one has mentioned that I am really looking fwd to betting. On another note, I wonder if Stoute will truly scratch Workforce if the course remains too hard this week.

Don't forget, that a hard turf course here, in Europe, it means it's got six inches of water floating on top of the grass.

RockHardTen1985 11-03-2010 08:36 PM

Im falling truly madly deeply in love with Unrivaled Belle. In her last 4 starts she has.... Defeated every ones WORLD BEATER ON THE SQUARE... Then 3 times in a row, was put on the total chase in 5,5 and 6 horse fields. She was forced to chase/press early, and one could argue all 3 of the track she caught on those days were playing 2 speed. She did all the dirty work in those races and a lot of her kick was sucked out of her. She draws perfect, absolutely perfect in this race. I pray Kent does not ingage Malibu Prayer... Let Life At Ten, Havre De Grace or Acting Happy engage that one early. Maybe this is the same situation, just a bigger field, but I just hope Kent has learned and stalks, instead of pressing. The fact is, she will likely be 10x the price that she was in her last race. How can she be bet? She has lost on the square to the Pletcher filly's who both show up in this spot..... Maybe Joey S is wrong again, but the bottom line is at 10x the price of her last race, and maybe 10x the price of the chalk who needs to come from the clouds Im giving UB a giant shot to get first jump and win this race.

hockey2315 11-03-2010 09:04 PM

What was Unrivaled Belle's excuse last time? She's exposed imo.

RockHardTen1985 11-03-2010 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315 (Post 715951)
What was Unrivaled Belle's excuse last time? She's exposed imo.

Shes just chasing and pressing these short fields... Grant it, it could happen again, but is L@T gonna let MP go? Why does he even enter both?
I just think based on price, shes worth a play... She draws perfect.

hockey2315 11-03-2010 09:13 PM

She had an easy trip last time and came up empty. She's been dull.

Dahoss 11-03-2010 09:14 PM

Why does he enter both? Why not? Don't you think they learned their lesson with Life At Ten in the Personal Ensign, thus the rating in the Beldame?

RockHardTen1985 11-03-2010 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 715957)
Why does he enter both? Why not? Don't you think they learned their lesson with Life At Ten in the Personal Ensign, thus the rating in the Beldame?

L@T not more accomplished? Is she not the one that they want to win this with? PE was a one time situation, you know better. 10f and an insane ride. She flew early at Belmont when she popped UB.
My 2 things with UB are, a much better price. Not a little better, we are talking like 10x better. And hopefully a better trip in a bigger field, where shes not forced to press.

hockey2315 11-03-2010 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 715953)
Shes just chasing and pressing these short fields... Grant it, it could happen again, but is L@T gonna let MP go? Why does he even enter both?
I just think based on price, shes worth a play... She draws perfect.

Different owners dude. And obviously, like Hoss said, they're not sending Life At Ten again. . .

the_fat_man 11-03-2010 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 715963)
L@T not more accomplished? Is she not the one that they want to win this with? PE was a one time situation, you know better. 10f and an insane ride. She flew early at Belmont when she popped UB.
My 2 things with UB are, a much better price. Not a little better, we are talking like 10x better. And hopefully a better trip in a bigger field, where shes not forced to press.

This is very sound thinking. Bet on a horse that only can with an absolutely perfect trip. Not only does there need to be a strong front duel but none of the closers can fire.

Dahoss 11-03-2010 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 715963)
L@T not more accomplished? Is she not the one that they want to win this with? PE was a one time situation, you know better. 10f and an insane ride. She flew early at Belmont when she popped UB.
My 2 things with UB are, a much better price. Not a little better, we are talking like 10x better. And hopefully a better trip in a bigger field, where shes not forced to press.

Your theory is they only want to win the race with Life At Ten? I would hope you know better than that. How many horses does Pletcher have with Evans? You don't think he'd like to win a Breeders Cup race for him?

Don't you think they learned from the PE? Why rate last time if they weren't trying to do something different? If you think the plan is to have them dueling with each other...I don't know what to say. That's insane.

RockHardTen1985 11-03-2010 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315 (Post 715965)
Different owners dude. And obviously, like Hoss said, they're not sending Life At Ten again. . .

I know who the owners are.

hockey2315 11-03-2010 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 715969)
I know who the owners are.

How many times has Pletcher run two horses in a race?

RockHardTen1985 11-03-2010 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 715968)
Your theory is they only want to win the race with Life At Ten? I would hope you know better than that. How many horses does Pletcher have with Evans? You don't think he'd like to win a Breeders Cup race for him?

Don't you think they learned from the PE? Why rate last time if they weren't trying to do something different? If you think the plan is to have them dueling with each other...I don't know what to say. That's insane.

Fine I dont like her, Ill take BL at 8-5 in a decent at best paced race.

RockHardTen1985 11-03-2010 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man (Post 715967)
This is very sound thinking. Bet on a horse that only can with an absolutely perfect trip. Not only does there need to be a strong front duel but none of the closers can fire.

Who do you like?

Dahoss 11-03-2010 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 715971)
Fine I dont like her, Ill take BL at 8-5 in a decent at best paced race.

Haha...dude, like who you want. I just don't understand your thinking in regards to the Pletcher horses and instead of providing a cogent arguement, it's like you're throwing crap at the wall.

I like Malibu prayer a bit and most think she has no shot. Who cares? Stop taking EVERYTHING personally.

RockHardTen1985 11-03-2010 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 715974)
Haha...dude, like who you want. I just don't understand your thinking in regards to the Pletcher horses and instead of providing a cogent arguement, it's like you're throwing crap at the wall.

I like Malibu prayer a bit and most think she has no shot. Who cares? Stop taking EVERYTHING personally.

Im tossing Blind Luck.
Im using MP also.
Might stand w/ MP and UB.

hockey2315 11-03-2010 09:38 PM

I'd hate to be alive in any kind of meaningful Pk4 and not have the two three-year-olds.

Dahoss 11-03-2010 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315 (Post 715977)
I'd hate to be alive in any kind of meaningful Pk4 and not have the two three-year-olds.

I don't see how you could not have at least one if not both covered in any multi race exotic. Especially because the F&M Turf doesn't seem like a race you need to spread too much.

hockey2315 11-03-2010 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 715978)
I don't see how you could not have at least one if not both covered in any multi race exotic. Especially because the F&M Turf doesn't seem like a race you need to spread too much.

All my Pk4s will finish Red Desire, Plumania w/ Blind Luck, Havre de Grace.

I'll probably regret chucking Midday, but love Red Desire to the point where I'm basically singling her and only using Plumania because she's a high price.


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