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Riot 10-25-2010 02:50 PM

Quote:

You obviously are "completely flummoxed by our debate skills" and that is why you refused to answer my question.
No, I didn't answer your question because it was stupid.

You made up two limited choices from Chuck's question, not based upon anything I answered or said. Chucks question was a circular, unanswerable straw man to start with. You demanded I answer A or B. You are so narrow minded you never considered there could be a C. So I ignored your stupid question.

So don't get all insulting and huffy with me, loser.

Rupert Pupkin 10-25-2010 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710930)
No, I didn't answer your question because it was stupid.

You made up two limited choices from Chuck's question, not based upon anything I answered or said. Chucks question was a circular, unanswerable straw man to start with. You demanded I answer A or B. You are so narrow minded you never considered there could be a C. So I ignored your stupid question.

So don't get all insulting and huffy with me, loser.

That's a good debate skill. If someone asks you a tough question, refuse to answer and use the excsue that "the question was stupid".

Riot 10-25-2010 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin (Post 710926)
And she doesn't understand why people give her a hard time. It's not because of her views. It's because of her dishonesty about her own views. When confronted with an inconsistency in one of her proclaimed views, she simply resfuses to answer the question.

What a load of crap. You guys routinely make absurd straw men up out of thin air, create false assumptions about what other people think or say about it, then diss them for it :D

Yeah, you guys are the rocket scientists of debate skills :tro:

Rupert Pupkin 10-25-2010 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710930)
No, I didn't answer your question because it was stupid.

You made up two limited choices from Chuck's question, not based upon anything I answered or said. Chucks question was a circular, unanswerable straw man to start with. You demanded I answer A or B. You are so narrow minded you never considered there could be a C. So I ignored your stupid question.

So don't get all insulting and huffy with me, loser.

If I am walking my dog at midnight, will I be more concerned if:

A. A youn man in baggy pants is approaching me
B. An 80 year old lady is approaching me

You say I should have considered that there could be an answer "C". I don't think there could be an answer "C". What would "C" be?

Let me guess, you refuse to answer that question too.

Riot 10-25-2010 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin (Post 710934)
That's a good debate skill. If someone asks you a tough question, refuse to answer and use the excsue that "the question was stupid".

It is a good debate skill, to ignore the nonsensical.

But, hey, you keep making more posts having a fight with the imaginary me about what you guess I think about old ladies, males, females and violent crime - even though I never commented at all on this thread about it, and you don't have a clue what I think about it :tro:

Cause long posts like you wrote, above, arguing with me about something I never answered, paragraph after paragraph, really make you look .... good.

Rupert Pupkin 10-25-2010 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710940)
It is a good debate skill, to ignore the nonsensical.

But, hey, you keep making more posts having a fight with the imaginary me about what you guess I think about old ladies, males, females and violent crime - even though I never commented at all on this thread about it, and you don't have a clue what I think about it :tro:

Cause long posts like you wrote, above, arguing with me about something I never answered, paragraph after paragraph, really make you look .... good.

You say I don't have a clue what you think. I know exactly what you think and everyone else on this board knows what you think. You're not kidding anyone. You're not hard to read.

Your silence tells me more than anything. You are usually not shy about giving your opinion. When you are shy, the reason is obvious. You will never an answer a question that exposes your hypocrisy. You're not kidding anyone.

Riot 10-25-2010 03:12 PM

Quote:

You say I don't have a clue what you think. I know exactly what you think
Most obviously, you don't have a clue.

Quote:

and everyone else on this board knows what you think. You're not kidding anyone. You're not hard to read.

Your silence tells me more than anything. You are usually not shy about giving your opinion. When you are shy, the reason is obvious. You will never an answer a question that exposes your hypocrisy. You're not kidding anyone.
You're projecting from your own reality. Not mine.

And I wouldn't be so quick to include "everyone else on this board". Some of you guys really go out on a limb, assuming you know what everybody else here thinks.

Rupert Pupkin 10-25-2010 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710952)
Most obviously, you don't have a clue.



You're projecting from your own reality. Not mine.

I've observed your posting behavior for a long time and you are as predictable as a clock. If answering a question will undermine your argument, you refuse to answer. That is one of the main reasons that you are so unpopular here.

The question I asked you was quite relevant to the subject being discussed. The subject being discussed was whether or not it is appropriate and even normal to have reactions to people based on their appearance. I think it is appropriate and normal and we all do it every day.

Riot 10-25-2010 03:30 PM

Quote:

I've observed your posting behavior for a long time and you are as predictable as a clock. If answering a question will undermine your argument, you refuse to answer. That is one of the main reasons that you are so unpopular here.
Well, to some, I guess it's really important to be popular.

Quote:

The question I asked you was quite relevant to the subject being discussed. The subject being discussed was whether or not it is appropriate and even normal to have reactions to people based on their appearance. I think it is appropriate and normal and we all do it every day.
Who are you trying to justify your behaviour and thoughts about Muslims to - me or you?

Dahoss 10-25-2010 03:31 PM

"Be impeccable with your word. Speak with integrity."

Riot 10-25-2010 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 710960)
"Be impeccable with your word. Speak with integrity."

"You may be proud you're a prick, but remember - you're still probably only half the size you think you are".

Rupert Pupkin 10-25-2010 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710952)
Most obviously, you don't have a clue.



You're projecting from your own reality. Not mine.

And I wouldn't be so quick to include "everyone else on this board". Some of you guys really go out on a limb, assuming you know what everybody else here thinks.

I wasn't saying that "everyone on the board" knows what you think about everything. I was saying that "everyone on the board" knows what you think about this particular question.

I don't think you could find 1 person out of 100 that wouldn't think that a young man in baggy pants is usually more of a threat than an 80 year old lady. Everyone has the same opinion about that. We all know your opinion about that much in the same that we know you believe the world is round. Even though I've never asked you if you think the world is round, we know you think the world is round because everyone knows the world is round.

Anyway, it's funny that you won't admit that you would be more fearful of a young man in baggy pants than an 80 year old lady. You won't admit it because you think it would make you look hypocritical since you have given others a hard time about judging people based on their appearance.

Rupert Pupkin 10-25-2010 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710959)
Well, to some, I guess it's really important to be popular.



Who are you trying to justify your behaviour and thoughts about Muslims to - me or you?


I refuse to answer whether (all things being equal) I would be more fearful of a person in Muslim garb than a person in normal attire on an airplane.

You don't know what I think. I've never answered that question.

Ha ha. I'm giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Dahoss 10-25-2010 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710962)
"You may be proud you're a prick, but remember - you're still probably only half the size you think you are".

You're really spinning out of control now. It's pretty fun to watch. Have you had your rabies vaccination this year?

Rupert Pupkin 10-25-2010 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710959)
Well, to some, I guess it's really important to be popular.



Who are you trying to justify your behaviour and thoughts about Muslims to - me or you?

I shouldn't have used the word "popular". I should have used the word "respected". If a person is intellectually "honest", I think they will be respected whether they are liberal or conservative.

Riot 10-25-2010 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin (Post 710965)
I refuse to answer whether (all things being equal) I would be more fearful of a person in Muslim garb than a person in normal attire on an airplane.

You don't know what I think. I've never answered that question.

Ha ha. I'm giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Alas, if only I asked you that question!

Riot 10-25-2010 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 710966)
You're really spinning out of control now. It's pretty fun to watch. Have you had your rabies vaccination this year?

Ewww - kinda creepy, that you followed me to yet another thread, just so you can make a snarky comment?

Well, I hope it made you feel better about yourself :tro:

Antitrust32 10-25-2010 03:58 PM

hiiiiiiiii wench! Sorry.... I meant hiiii Beth!! I see you are doing wonderful in yet another thread! Hope you have a great evening!

Dahoss 10-25-2010 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710970)
Ewww - kinda creepy, that you followed me to yet another thread, just so you can make a snarky comment?

Well, I hope it made you feel better about yourself :tro:

There it is. The victim routine. That's rich.

Riot 10-25-2010 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 710977)
There it is. The victim routine. That's rich.

Where's Coach? Don't you guys have to compare penis sizes now?

Antitrust32 10-25-2010 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710979)
Where's Coach? Don't you guys have to compare penis sizes now?

My imaginary one is by far the biggest. Would you like to see it?

Riot 10-25-2010 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 710980)
My imaginary one is by far the biggest. Would you like to see it?

I can see it now.

Antitrust32 10-25-2010 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710982)
I can see it now.

:tro:

Dahoss 10-25-2010 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710979)
Where's Coach? Don't you guys have to compare penis sizes now?

I realize it's been decades since you have seen one, but you are going about it the wrong way.

Antitrust32 10-25-2010 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710982)
I can see it now.

I do want to know though... do YOU think it is racist if you get a nervous instinct or feeling when you see a young man with baggy pants late at night... or if you see a Muslim in religious garb on your flight... or if you see Morty peering in your bedroom window?


(besides the last phrase it was a serious question)

I personally do not think it is racist. I think nervous feelings are natural in situations that you might not be 100% comfortable in. Now if you want to catagorize all young men in baggy pants as "thugs" and criminals, than yeah that is racist... if you want to kick Muslims off all flights, yup racist. But a natural feeling of nervousness in situations, I do not believe that to be racist.

How do you feel about my first paragraph?

Riot 10-25-2010 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 710987)
I realize it's been decades since you have seen one, but you are going about it the wrong way.

Hey, don't be ashamed. I'm sure you're just fine.

Riot 10-25-2010 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 710989)
How do you feel about my first paragraph?

Very pretty.

clyde 10-25-2010 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710979)
Where's Coach? Don't you guys have to compare penis sizes now?


^^^^ She ain't got one,thus the hysterics.





I guess she could have borrowed Honula's.

Oh well.

clyde 10-25-2010 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710991)
Very pretty.

Talk dirty to us.....pleeeeease?

Antitrust32 10-25-2010 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710991)
Very pretty.

Riot!!! Stop thinking about my imaginary dick!! :o


Do you think it is racist to feel nervousness when confronted with certain situations? Any way I can get an answer?

Dahoss 10-25-2010 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 710990)
Hey, don't be ashamed. I'm sure you're just fine.

I have to give you credit. You're one of the few people here that uses a picture of themselves for their avatar. Now be good and I'll take you for a walk later.

Antitrust32 10-25-2010 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 710989)
I do want to know though... do YOU think it is racist if you get a nervous instinct or feeling when you see a young man with baggy pants late at night... or if you see a Muslim in religious garb on your flight... or if you see Morty peering in your bedroom window?


(besides the last phrase it was a serious question)

I personally do not think it is racist. I think nervous feelings are natural in situations that you might not be 100% comfortable in. Now if you want to catagorize all young men in baggy pants as "thugs" and criminals, than yeah that is racist... if you want to kick Muslims off all flights, yup racist. But a natural feeling of nervousness in situations, I do not believe that to be racist.

How do you feel about my first paragraph?


I believe this is a pretty straight-forward question with a Yes (it is racist) or No (it is natural to feel nervous sometimes) answer.

Aaaannnnyyyway we can get an answer? Prove to us doubters that you can tackle a tough topic! (not that this is a tough topic or anything)

If you answer honestly I'll give you a bonus prize!!

clyde 10-25-2010 05:13 PM

Honula was right about her.




I'm leaving.

Riot 10-25-2010 06:21 PM

For all those here whose goal is to justify keeping the ridiculous fires of "Muslims attacked us on 9-11!" burning:

Andrew Sullivan in The Atlantic:

Quote:

Juan Williams: Busted
23 Oct 2010 11:26 am

Juan Williams: On general suspicion and nervousness around people wearing "Muslim garb":

I'm not a bigot. You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous. Now, I remember also that when the Times Square bomber was at court, I think this was just last week. He said the war with Muslims, America's war is just beginning, first drop of blood. I don't think there's any way to get away from these facts.

On general suspicion and nervousness around people with dark skin, in a TNR colloquium about whether it was justified, given the objective racial statistics of who is likeliest to commit crime:

Neither black nor white store owners are in business to display the virtues of admitting people of all colors, creeds, and fashions to their stores. They are in business to make money. I would want to take precautions to prevent robbery; I would look closely at people entering the store. The race of a potential customer would be one factor among many to be considered as I girded myself against thieves.

But in Washington and almost all other major cities, blacks do patronize jewelry stores. A jeweler in Beverly Hills who closed his door to heavily bejeweled Mr. T would be foolishly closing his cash register. Unless I am a racist, race and age cannot be the sole deciding factors in calculating whom I will and will not let into my store. And I certainly would not close my door to, say, all young black men - not even to those who are casually dressed and behaving nervously. I would act cautiously in dealing with them, as I would with an antic, strangely dressed white man.

As a cabdriver I would apply the same considerations. Discrimination can be used judiciously. I would certainly exclude one class of people: those who struck me as dangerous. Nervous-looking people with bulges under their jackets would not be picked up; nor would those who looked obviously drunk or stoned. It all comes down to a subjective judgment of what dangerous people look like. This does not necessarily entail a racial judgment. Cabdrivers who don't pick up young black men as a rule are making a poorly informed decision. Racism is a lazy man's substitute for using good judgment.

The elevator question is disingenuous. I suspect you are suggesting that I am a white woman getting into an apartment building elevator with a strange black man. Of course, black women have just as much to fear as white women. Nevertheless, black women living in black neighborhoods ride elevators with black men frequently, and do so without being raped. In this situation and all others, common sense is my constant guard. Common sense becomes racism when skin color becomes a formula for figuring out who is a danger to me.

Notice that Williams uses facts and evidence to make these judgments. Yet the facts and evidence in the case he was discussing on Fox News prove that there is no statistical reason whatever to get nervous around those in Muslim garb on airplanes - since no terror attacks in America have been conducted by people in that attire. Yet that factor - and that alone - is what he invokes to justify his fear. This is anti-religious bigotry in its purest, clearest form.

In stark contrast, in the case of generalizing about nervousness and suspicion of thievery toward African-American men, Williams is far more circumspect. He takes statistical evidence into account; he looks for aspects in a human being that, independent of their race, might make one suspicious. He rules out judgment based on their clothing or their "acting nervously". But when it comes to Muslims in traditional garb, he feels nervous because of that fact alone, and associates them immediately with a terror suspect involving Islam in general - not radical Jihadism - as at war with the West.

So generalized nervousness around people wearing Muslim garb (who statistically have committed zero acts of terrorism in the US) is not bigotry; but generalized nervousness and suspicion around young black men (who statistically were much more likely to commit the crimes in question in the thought experiment in the colloquium) is racism.

Why, in other words, did Williams not say about those in Muslim garb:

Common sense becomes bigotry when religious attire becomes a formula for figuring out who is a danger to me.

Why does he have this extreme double standard? And how dare he use his own record in defending civil rights for African-Americans to justify his bigoted prejudice against devout Muslims?

I think the answer is pretty obvious. He is on Fox News, pandering to the anti-Muslim bigot, Bill O'Reilly. And Roger Ailes rewards him for that role, as a "liberal" justifying anti-Muslim bigotry, because pandering to bigotry makes for good ratings and good politics.

Riot 10-25-2010 06:40 PM

And here's an interesting viewpoint from Glenn Greenwald at Salon. In part:

Quote:

And then there's the more amorphous but arguably more significant self-justifying benefit that comes from condemning "Muslims" for their violent, extremist ways. I'm always amazed when I receive e-mails from people telling me that I fail to understand how Islam is a uniquely violent, supremely expansionist culture that is intrinsically menacing. The United States is a country with a massive military and nuclear stockpile, that invaded and has occupied two Muslim countries for almost a full decade, that regularly bombs and drones several others, that currently is threatening to attack one of the largest Muslim countries in the world, that imposed a sanctions regime that killed hundreds of thousands of Muslim children, that slaughters innocent people on a virtually daily basis, that has interfered in and controlled countries around the world since at least the middle of the last century, that has spent decades arming and protecting every Israeli war with its Muslim neighbors and enabling a four-decade-long brutal occupation, and that erected a worldwide regime of torture, abduction and lawless detention, much of which still endures. Those are just facts.

But if we all agree to sit around and point over there -- hey, can you believe those primitive Muslims and how violent and extremist they are -- the reality of what we do in the world will fade blissfully away. Even better, it will be transformed from violent aggression into justified self-defense, and then we'll not only free ourselves of guilt, but feel proud and noble because of it. As is true with all cultures, there are obviously demented, psychopathic, violent extremists among Muslims. And there's no shortage of such extremists in our own culture either. One would think we'd be more interested in the extremists among us, but by obsessively focusing on Them, we are able to blind ourselves to the pathologies that drive our own actions. And that self-cleansing, self-justifying benefit -- which requires the preservation of the Muslim-as-Threat mythology -- is probably more valuable than all the specific, pragmatic benefits described above. All this over a "menace" (Terrorism) that killed a grand total of 25 noncombatant Americans last year (McClatchy: "undoubtedly more American citizens died overseas from traffic accidents or intestinal illnesses than from terrorism").

Antitrust32 10-25-2010 07:03 PM

Well I believe I have a better chance of getting my imaginary pud caught in my zipper than Riot answering a question with her own opinion.

& those two articles posted were absolute shi.t.

SOREHOOF 10-25-2010 07:22 PM

The only thing I got from those articles is that people in "Muslim garb" are the least likely to do you any harm. The terrorists know this. They wouldn't be on a "mission" dressed to attract attention. We should only be suspicious of people who are dressed "normally". Completely without regard to their ethnicity.

Rileyoriley 10-25-2010 07:52 PM

I can honestly say I'd rather be on a plane with a thug in baggy pants, an 80 year old woman, people in muslim garb and Morty than with Riot. :D

geeker2 10-25-2010 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley (Post 711119)
I can honestly say I'd rather be on a plane to Vegas with a thug in baggy pants, an 80 year old woman, people in muslim garb and Morty in a Superman's suit than with Riot. :D

FTFY
:{>:

clyde 10-25-2010 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 711061)
And here's an interesting viewpoint from Glenn Greenwald at Salon. In part:


Riot,Sweetie....would you like to meet me in Louisville in a few weeks?


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