Is it?

I don't follow such things ... I really have my doubts that other tracks handle would suffer. Just because their cards look far less attractive and they don't stack up ... that doesn't mean a whole lot of bettors money will avoid them.

I thought the Met Mile card at Belmont was better in '09 and they got more people to the track attendance wise as well for '09 - both cards also had 11 races -but this years Memorial day card at Belmont handled almost 700K more.

I think a few people in NJ might be coming back to the track. I know a guy from there who lets me use his NJ account ... and for about the last 2 years every time I'd log into his account he'd almost always have about $0.70 for a balance .. the dude simply wasn't betting.. and the few times he'd fund his account it would be for total chump change... a few hundred here and there that would come and go. Now, I see he's got over a couple grand in there and there's at least some activitey. Of course most of his action is going to MTH racing ... but it's pretty safe to assume he's going to be betting a lot more elsewhere than he was when he was betting basically nothing at all anywhere over the last few years.

I think it has more to do with Mth wrecking the handle at "other" tracks that simulcast players look at, like AP, CD, CrC, LaD, and LS. The people who play Belmont have generally always played Belmont IMO. When they were looking for another track to play in the past their action may have been spread around but for the most part it's now going exclusively to Mth.

Unless you believe that the money is coming from people who previously did not play, and that is possible to an extent, then the money that Monmouth's handling is at other tracks' expense.

NT

so this is what your position is reduced to? might have just been easier to admit you were wrong a few pages back. you keep failing to recognize that the #1 slogan for the monmouth meet is 50 million in 50 days.

the money is why people are at monmouth. the fact that so far they arent close to averaging a million a day and wont be at the end of the meet is a story. at least some people think it is including the thread starter. you dont and that is fine.

but why set yourself up in the middle of a discussion that

1. you have said you dont care about
2. you have no interest in actually discussing
3. you dont think is even a story
4. you are wrong about, but too hard headed to admit?

why waste your time on something like this?

Have you been looking at some of the cards that so many other tracks have been pounding out on a 4 and 5 day a week basis?

They suck sh!t through a fucl<ing straw!!

So many of those cards are a total vortex of suck.

I have to handicap every race they card at PID the entire meet ... and my only reaction is simply "Who in their right Fucl<ing mind would want to even make a token bet on about 60% of these sorry pile of sh!t races?"

There's good things happening at tracks like Monmouth and Evangeline right now ... most every other track needs to reduce days.

I've seen the glory of a 25 day PID meet when they have given out about the same in purses as they do over these 100 day meets.

In terms of racing product ... the 25 day meet is a supermodel compared to the $10 crack whore that is the 100 day meet.

There are a lot of racetracks out there steep in double digit declines right now, or declines out-pacing the industry's current situation (around -8% or so). It's a ripple effect. It's also people leaving the game etc... a combination of factors.

When Monmouth is posting the numbers they're posting, they are yanking money here or there from a lot of racetracks. Even if it's just worth 20k per race at a place like Louisiana Downs, Lone Star or Arlington, that adds-up fast. For example, at LAD, 20k / race * 9 races = 180k... or about 7-12% of our average handle. That's significant for a place like here. Now, our product is not very good right now, so it's compounded, but that's a result of the ripple effect and overall state of the game.

Monmouth is running far less races that are unattractive (small fields), so last year while players might look elsewhere here or there, now they're not. A place like LAD can't find "spots" anymore like it used to. When CD closes, we'll see what happens, as that'll free-up a large amount of coin. But in general, the national simulcast landscape has changed.

Is this necessarily a bad thing? This is the market dictating what the market wants, so we'll see what the long term impact is, both in terms of short-term handle and business performance, but also industry trends regarding race dates / races.

As for Belmont... Big Sandy is immune to a lot of things... they have a powerful brand, the most powerful brand in the country, which is why a lot have wrote about how despite the smaller fields / purses etc., they're still out-handling MTH. So using them as a gauge for anything besides the overall industry is pointless.

Because explaining the reality of the situation could perhaps enlighten some of the people who took the time to read this tedious thread?

You keep hanging your hat on a 'slogan'. I dont know what it is that I have said that you find so upsetting on a personal level. You keep coming back to petty points while obviously missing the point. That point is that purse money is not evenly distributed on a daily basis. A secondary point is that the amount of purse money paid out depends on many factors other than the tracks desire to pay or not pay more or less than stated in the 'slogan'. The third point is that purses are usually underpaid by some percentage for the majority of a meet's days. The reasoning is simple, the track does not want to pay more than they are required to.

You want to spin this as though something is happening that isnt typical racetrack business practices. It is not. As I have said numerous times, how much Monmouth pays out in purses is immaterial to me. If they pay out $46 million instead of $50 million it doesnt matter to me because racetracks underpaying purses is a common move. Your insistence that they are going to way underpay the purses is so far based on conjecture. But the idea that something nefarious is happening there because of your opinion over a slogan, well that does interest me.

Travis ... LAD is in the same friggin state as Evangeline Downs.

Forget Monmouth Park ... you have a red headed stepchild who all of a sudden is blooming into a full fledged hottie right in your own stomping grounds.

EVD averages over 10 starters per race on dirt - and now they have a brand new turf course ... that's a cheaper brand of racing - but it's product is at it's absolute finest.

They always have, their field size has always dwarfed ours. This is the first year though where EVD is consistently whipping us in handle. Even if you factor in our loss of field size (which is not super significant overall, but there none-the-less), we should't be doing as poorly as we are. And we're not the only track posting such numbers.

When you erase the industry factor, the only other significant change has been Monmouth. They're yanking a few million more per day away from the middle to lower tier tracks. Our Thursday handle this year has been solid... a day when there is no Monmouth.

This is only the 2nd year that EVD has run turf races - as they recently had a turf course installed for the first time.

I know that 10 years ago MTR racing was a very big thing among the small group of semi-serious and serious local players .. and those guys are all on the EVD bandwagon right now. I don't blame them either ... if you can stand real cheap racing .. or actually love it ... that's as good as it gets. I think people are slowly starting to figure that out. MTR racing is on a downword spiral.

im not taking this personally at all. why would i? despite your and others attempts, its not a personal thing at all. its actually the other way around. you wont let it go despite "not caring." ive said my piece and look forward to revisiting this in the future. then we will see who was really explaining the reality of the situation.

:wf

When I first saw this thread - I was like "who, other than Byk, gives a rats ass about stuff like race logos and advertising slogans - or anything that has to do with advertising for that matter?"

They only ran 14 races on Haskell day last year - the Haskell itself went as race 13.

I hope to God they card 20 races on Haskell day this year ... and all of those stupid NJ bred 2yo MSW races with like 75K purses that are coming .. I hope they split them into 3 different divisions for each sex and run them as the first 6 races of the day so they can close in on fullfilling a stupid advertising slogan... while allowing me to get some extra sleep. Win/win for everyone, right?

It actually would be sweet if they go to a 14 or 15 race schedule for Saturdays and Sundays during Saratoga and Del Mar.. and basically run right through both of them.

Who cares about saving a little extra for a pretty irrelevant fall meet.

when i first read your post i was like "who cares what he thinks?"

:tro::tro:

There is something very interesting that is part of the reason Monmouth is giving away less money than they claimed or planned.....their races aren't filling. They have been forced to run a number of cheaper races because $80K allowance races aren't filling. There just aren't enough " quality " horses to fill races regardless of purses. Theoretically, this should put a lot of other things in perspective, as if Monmouth can't fill these races with $80K purses, how can any other tracks. The reason you see cheap racing at every track is that there simply aren't horses to fill better races.

None of this is about what was " advertised. " Like I said before, it's a great case study for the industry.

The third race(opt allowance) at a typical NYRA event gets 6 with a pending Scratch while MP doesnt fill 3 allowance races (save the NJ bRED swill) it does feature 7 to 8 runners. The point is if you continue to offer 80plus K you will get the attention of horseman thru out the country

you guys are so cute

thank you

Freddy, given that Monmouth has run some short fields, " not filling " means they are NOT getting 7 or 8 horses.

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. I could care less about Monmouth or any of their advertising. I'm still focusing most of my wagering on Belmont and I'm looking forward to spending as many days as possible at Saratoga.

Wow and actual passionate thread that doesn't have the name Zenyatta in it. Bravo folks bravo!!

:tro:

:tro::tro::tro:

I think Zenyatta is better.

I hope Monmouth's card for Saturday is a bit more "elite" than Friday's slate, which has one allowance race. The rest of it is Evangeline by the Shore.

NT

Evangeline is a nice betting track!! Good full fields and if you look good can find nice prices. One of my favorite betting tracks in fact it helped me bail out on derby day.

saturday i hit the elusive pick 5......for 150 bucks:(

Me too. It's not a redboard when it pays so small. I was proud of myself for placing a wager that lasted two hours for a return of 2.7-1.

NT

yeah, that was a huge let down.

Why such a hater Nick? Your anomosity towards everything Monmouth Park comes across loud and clear.

Find every post I've made about Monmouth Park and post it here and we'll see.

What I've said about Monmouth is that I think the "Elite Summer Meet" is a one year thing, which is my opinion. I've also said that Jersey breds running for 80k is nauseating, which is my opinion. I've also said that Friday's card absolutely blows from a standpoint of quality horses participating. Considering the numerous statements made by people far and wide about Monmouth wrecking the Belmont and Saratoga meets, I disagreed then and I more than disagree now.

I enjoyed an afternoon at Monmouth the day before the Belmont and have always found it to be one of the best racetracks to visit in the entire country. If my opinions enumerated above constitute loud and clear animosity then I guess I'm just a disgruntled racing fan.

NT

me and you both.
Just looking at the whole situation this way if you take the entire stakes book for the whole season the total amount of purses is around 12.5 million (give or take a little). THen take an average of 10 races a day (excluding Stakes) for a 50 day meet that means those races alone must average around 750k a day to reach the 50 million mark.

I think the slogan for a lot of bad tracks should be "at least we're not Presque Isle"

This from a general news opinion writer in todays paper ...

As a horse player, someone whose primary focus is on BETTING, my only complaint with PID is that I really don't know what to do with NESS. At least at TAM, when his horses get hit, they typically win. Doesn't work this way at PID, which really complicates things. Something similar is happening at WO. Last year, when the juicer Jordan's horses got hit they almost always won. This year, they get hit and rather than keep on going in the stretch quite a few just collapse (like 'normal' horses would).

I would think UN Day will be a little more "elite"...It looks like there is about 1.6 MILLION up for grabs on Saturday alone.( ~1MM in the two stakes ).

It's interesting to merge this discussion with the one also taking place about Arlington. According to that conversation, Arlington can't fill allowance races. How can they if Monmouth, with all this money to give away, struggles to do this as well.

The whole thing is a great eye opener as to why racing isn't as good ( everywhere ) as many think it should be.

is there a need for less tracks?