You mean Southern Baptists like Nidal Malik Hasan, who killed 12 soldiers and 1 civilian at Fort Hood. Or how about D.C. sniper John Allen Muhammad. Or maybe Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, who shot two privates at an Army recruiting office in Little Rock in 2009.

in her opinion this is bigoted.

[quote=Riot;651142]I don't think anyone said anything about "all Muslims" being bad or anything like that. Plenty of Muslims are very good people.

But to try to act like it's only a tiny percentage of Muslims that admired Bin Laden would be false.

And I don't think you could possibly support the way women are treated in many Muslim countries.

Nice try. No, I mean Christians like Eric Rudolf, Tim McVey, Scott Roeder.

Wrong, but don't let that stop you from just making crap up :tro:

"Muslims have gone too far".

Nice to hear you state the obvious.

We'll just have to disagree completely on that one.

No, I have no desire to go to Saudi. However, that has nothing to do with foreign terrorism threats to this country. I also don't support the way Muslims are treated by some Americans in this country.

I think the American soldier in that video should be punished for how he treated those children. You?

If you'll read my post again, I believe you'll notice that I didn't call Bush a "murderous thug." I reserved that language only for Bin Laden.
The comparison I made between the two was simply one of individuals who gave orders that directly led to the deaths of thousands of people but retained relatively high approval ratings in certain parts of the world. The two men clearly and indisputably share those traits but, as you point out, they differ on many others.
Obviously the supporters of each man continue to believe that the motivations of their guy are/were noble while the other's are/were just plain evil. Personally I happen to believe the motivations of both individuals were pretty evil, and I find the worldview of them both to be absolutely disgusting. Does that mean I think they were the "same?" No. I'm not sure there is much merit in ranking which individual's (or group's) ideology is more evil/harmful/revolting etc. than another's ideology. However, were I to engage in such an exercise, then yes, I would rank Bin Laden and Al Queda as being worse than the Bush administration....which is saying a lot.

Well I was directing my thread towards the Muslims who want to censor the drawings of Muhammad.

But I suppose I could have worded the title better.

What do you mean you disagree? The polls showed that Bin Laden was quite popular in the Muslim world. It's not debatable. They did polls in several Muslim countries and Bin Laden was quite popular for a while. There's nothing to argue about. It's a fact.

With regard to your question about the American soldier and the children, I haven't seen the video, so I can't answer that.

Fair enough. I misunderstood you. I'm glad that you don't think Bush is a "murderous thug".

If Bush's wars were so evil, then isn't Obama just as bad as Bush? Obama is continuing the wars.

Yes, "it's a fact" if one only considers those particular 2003 polls, ignoring all other published opinion expressed by various Muslim individuals, countries, organizations regarding bin Laden pre- and post- 9/11, within Saudi and elsewhere.

You should watch the video. Directly applicable to this thread.

I doubt that wording matters much, judging by the dearth of, "Hey, I don't think millions of Muslims can be lumped together and presumed to be religious terrorists" comments.

There are plenty of Muslims that hate Bin Laden and there are plenty that love him. I'm not ignoring the Muslims that hate Bin Laden. I recognize that plenty of Muslims dislike him. I never stated otherwise.

I'll be happy to watch the video. Where is the link to it?

Hmm...well I didn't say I didn't think it, I just said I didn't say it in that post. ;)
As for the Obama administration, in Iraq they are gradually implementing a phased withdrawal. I give them some credit for that, although I am not sure their efforts there really differ greatly from how the Bush administration would be handling Iraq now were it still in power. However, I wouldn't say that gradually implementing a slow end to a completely unnecessary war is "just as bad" as starting a completely unnecessary war in the first place.
As far as Afghanistan, I think the Obama administration's decisions to ramp up U.S. efforts there are absolutely horrible. I have criticized the administration's actions there on numerous occasions, and hope that other liberals do the same. If we only criticize the Bush administration when they do crap like this and give the Obama administration a free ride, we are just as hypocritical as all the conservatives who suddenly started caring about the debt and deficit in January '09 after ignoring it for eight years.

It's all fun and games until somebody gets their head cut off... :eek:

This is the key. I'm not sure it's practical or responsible to come into office, drag every last troop out of two war zones, and say you did it just because you don't agree with the wars.

So the best thing to do is what's happening in Iraq, which is admittedly happening slower than I'd like. Not a fan of increasing presence in another war zone....not at all. But to say that somehow having to deal with the $hit sandwich someone dropped in your lap in a responsible way is equally as bad as creating it in the first place is a little bit of a dishonest way to approach it.

Bush didnt create the war in Afghanistan. Al Queda did when they declared war on the USA with the 9-11 terror attacks.

Iraq is a different story, but I wanted to get that clarified.

Oh, we are supposed to like people that belong to an organization that believes in killing (or heavily taxing) anyone who won't join their gang? Maybe these Pet Muslims you write about are acting nice, because they aren't in the majority. Put them in a Muslim Majority Country, and see the real them. Far as blanket stuff goes, haven't you noticed how these countries % of Muslims are in the hi 90's? That's what happens when a Prophet tells his followers to kill those who try to leave the religion. Any time they get a majority, they try to turn that in to a hi 90's % of the population. You say some of these Muslims are good, but they choose to follow the teachings of a Pedophile who told males to treat their women like farm animals. They follow a man who said 1 man's word is equal to that of 2 women. They choose to follow the teachings of a man that butchered non believers. I'm sorry, but I can't see how Muslims can be good people. You can't follow this person's teachings, and be a good person. I don't understand the huge free pass you give people that choose to follow a guy who fkd a girl that played with dolls. If he was here, he'd be put in prison for this, and this is the person you say good people can follow? I don't think so. I'm not getting this assumption you have that says "good people" can follow.... a butcher.....a pedophile......someone who calls for the killing of those leaving the "faith." It's obvious that you're ignoring core beliefs. To me, someone who follows this person's teachings is not "good people." These aren't people following some Latter Day Saint. Far as I know, Mormons aren't out to kill people that refuse to buy into their belief system. Islam has clear stated goals. If people say they belong to that belief system, then I have to accept the fact that (push come to shove) they are gunna be in support of the world domination ordered by their Prophet. Do you folks have a portion of your brain that won't allow you to fully accept the stated goals of this religion? I think so. I'm not going to harm these people, but I don't see any way that these can be "good people." Their goals are not good for non-Muslims. That light has got to (someday) go on.

"We" don't all buy into your description. Some of "we" think your knowledge of Islam is colored only by information provided by hate sites. Some of "we" think some of the things you say about "Muslims" (as a whole) are absurdly, patently and simply wrong.

See the third page of this thread:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/i...iraqi-children

Interesting you see the path of America demonstrated by a single American soilder yet can't see the path of islaam demonstrated by numerous armies.

Your hate for everything this country has accomplished is very evident.

and by the way her original post was

Originally Posted by Riot
You mean the "path of America" as demonstrated by the ignorant, bigoted, homophobic American soldier in the link I posted?


and in the memory of Paul Harvey as she said

RIOT F'N QUOTE!!!!!!!!!

"Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it" - that it's an incredibly complicated, multi-layered area of the world."


'You have the rest of the story' !!!!!!!!!

[quote]Indeed it was. So you think that soldier wasn't an ignorant, bigoted, homophobic maldemonstration decrying and misrepresenting all that is good about America and Americans, especially considering he was in a country not our own?

Let's get this straight: you think I am wrong to criticize that soldier? You think that soldier represents Americans and our military?

The sad thing is, he is supposed to.

Yes, I did.

I know that goes against the opinion that all Muslims are identical.

There are 169 million people in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. They have been an Islamic republic since 1956. Yes I think that Pakistan is a pretty good representation of the Muslim world.

It's Muslim. But representative? I don't think so. The primary sect is Sunni, and they have stronger tribal relations not found in other Muslim countries. Kinda like saying Catholics and Southern Baptists are all Christians, and that makes them exactly one and the same.

EXACTLY!

DOH!

and be real the fact America has overcome slavery, women’s and civil rights despite being less than 300 years while these Islamic countries have had millenniums should speak volumes in it self. Not to mention your fake garb for America coming off.. Hate us, U.S. but at least admit it! Like Michele OB almost or DID!

Did you miss the part that it has been an Islamic Republic since 1956? LOL! Spin like a top all you like but Pakistan is the absolute definition of representative of the Muslim world. And has been for over 50 years.

Yeah, well, you're welcome to keep your "DOH!". Sorry, don't buy it, never will.

"All Muslims" are no more alike than "all blacks" are alike, than "all Catholic priests" are defined by those who are child molesters.

If only American could overcome bigotry, too.

cept 'one lone (american soilder) rides away.' I think the song was written before its time and you take neighbor to a new extreme!

If you have already decided that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and UAE and Chad and Morocco and Malaysia and Indonesia are all exactly the same socially and religiously, and that all Muslims are the same - hey, good luck with that.

I'd LOL too, but it's rather sad.

yea lets folllow

a islamic country

suggestions?


?




?




?




DOH!

and a 3000 year start bonus?


DOUBLE DOH

Gotta love the internet, where being attacked ad nauseum for not hating Muslims can almost seem justified.

ur a Cartrer guy and he gets it right?

Just so I know I'm not dreaming? :zz:

again ad nauseum

Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it" - that it's an incredibly complicated, multi-layered area of the world.


That was you RIOT or no??????????

Yes, Dell, as I said just a few moments, above, and as I have said every previous time you bring this quote up. Yeah, I stand by it. Absolutely.

Here, I"ll repeat it again, because you couldn't understand it a couple posts ago, apparently <vbg>

and I think we don't need any advice from cultures who prevent women from say driving. Get it yet?

:zz: What are you talking about? I never said "we" should get advice from any culture, let alone "Muslim".


BTW, women drive in several "Muslim" cultures. GASP!